Non-tneel Z1's.... Yeah that title works.

[Ecapnation]

These were purchased from EMR out of their defunct rental fleet because of the history behind them as told to us by Blue. The were yet another clone that was going to hit the market but they caught this one just in time and ceased and desisted them before they were assembled.

The interesting....
- basically fully updated with montneel parts because they were used as part of emr's rental fleet after the lawsuits seizure of materials.
- they are proprietary threads and very strange at that.
- I think we purchased them all with Dan bacci having one of the only ones out there currently.

$100 shipped each as is....

One gun will come with an extra body because someone engraved flames into it.... I have many incomplete guns.


TWO SOLD

[RuleOfSines]

Messaged you on the ol facebook

[Axel]

Why would anyone think they were copying Montneel?

[Ecapnation]

They are basically near identical clones... Except for subtle things. Screw sizes and types, barrel threading, Anno is not as crisp and the detent plate is longer

[Jordan]

Missed opportunity for "Non-tneel" in the title.

[Carp]

[Jordan]

Nice!

[Hutbrew]

I thought I remembered the title being different a few days ago- had chalked it up to Mandela

[Ecapnation]

Ha!!

[Hp_lovecraft]

Kinda an interesting story-
The European distributor for Montneel had a dispute with Montneel over money. So to retaliate, the european company (T&L Europe) sent a Montneel Z1 to a company in Zhejang China, to produce a copy..
The copy sold in Europe was the Medusa, then they released it in the USA as the Boxer, distributed by PMI. NPS also distributed it. NPS noticed that Montneel never trademarked the name "ICON", because it was already owned by bob Gurnsey (for a version of the splatmaster). They bought the name from Bob, then started selling the Montneel-clone as the NPS Icon.

They became a popular rental option, but companies found it hard to openly sell the clones because it causes issues with Montneel. And Montneel was further more irritated when those clones started being sent in to Montneel for repairs. They had to put ads in the magazines stating that those are not Montneel products.

It really was the wild west in the 90s. The guns are decent enough. I like that they used larger threads on the receiver mounts. The original montneel guns were prone to stripping. Later ones often had helicoils to prevent that. I think the boxer/icon/medusa used 1/4 screws? They also were usually powdercoated

[Painthappy]

Kinda an interesting story-
The European distributor for Montneel had a dispute with Montneel over money. So to retaliate, the european company (T&L Europe) sent a Montneel Z1 to a company in Zhejang China, to produce a copy..
The copy sold in Europe was the Medusa, then they released it in the USA as the Boxer, distributed by PMI. NPS also distributed it. NPS noticed that Montneel never trademarked the name "ICON", because it was already owned by bob Gurnsey (for a version of the splatmaster). They bought the name from Bob, then started selling the Montneel-clone as the NPS Icon.

They became a popular rental option, but companies found it hard to openly sell the clones because it causes issues with Montneel. And Montneel was further more irritated when those clones started being sent in to Montneel for repairs. They had to put ads in the magazines stating that those are not Montneel products.

It really was the wild west in the 90s. The guns are decent enough. I like that they used larger threads on the receiver mounts. The original montneel guns were prone to stripping. Later ones often had helicoils to prevent that. I think the boxer/icon/medusa used 1/4 screws? They also were usually powdercoated

and its stuff like this why i love this place... well personal preferences aside.

[Hp_lovecraft]

and its stuff like this why i love this place... well personal preferences aside.

I like telling those old stories because once we forget them, they will literally be gone forever. God bless Dan Bacci, but one day his website will go down, and memories with it.

And those early 90s were just a crazy time. Companies splitting up, like Carter and NW, or TASO and AGS, PMI and sheridan.
Companies started openly making copies of other guns like USI and Kingman. Some employees left Tippmann, and made knockoffs.
and companies like Montneel relied heavily on 3rd party contractors. And when they failed to pay them, they left and made there own copies, ie Boxer, Icon, AK1 Avenger, Checkmate, etc.

No guns left the factory "tournament ready", so we heavily tinkered, and modified, always looking for an advantage. So worked, some didn't, and some were clearly cheating.

The early 90s was my favorite era. The late 90s became all about lawsuits, and patents, and electro everything, and soulless speedball. I didn't care for it

[Ecapnation]

Bump!!