New custom 5way Solenoid Valve for Cockers

[pumzele]

Hello People,

Some how I can't get onto Customcockers anymore...
So I will be posting about my projects here more often in future.

I have been toying around with releasing a whole E-Kit and the next part after Frame, Valve and Board is the front solenoid.
I was in discussions with Mac and their 5way valves are very expensive and that cost would be carried onto you guys.
On top of that I would still need to mount the valve meaning I would need at least have to manufacture one more big part.

What to do?
I decided to design my own 5 way using the MAC bullet valve as the pilot.

The Good
The benefit of this is that the 5 way will be serviceable and cheaper.
The flow will also be higher(to be confirmed)
The Bullet Mac valves are super reliable which means servicing the 5 way spool will be more than enough
The Valve is also significantly smaller than a standard Eblade solenoid assembly
Not decided yet but can be made 200psi tolerant.
Low part count: Main body, pilot valve, Barbs, Spool, O-rings(6 dynamic, 4 static), Spool plug screw, Transfer-port plug screw.
Will be compatible with Resurrection(can screw it in all the way).

The Bad
It has an exposed solenoid part(well I actually like it)
It will consume more power than the standard SMC solenoid(1W vs 0.25W)
Looks? I mean I like it but it's not everyones piece of cake, hence why I am posting here to get some feedback.

Here some pics with comparrison with a standard eblade solenoid housing.

[pumzele]

I will probably have this version made unless I get some valuable feedback. Another nice feature is that the M3 barbs have a o-ring grove so that no threadtape or loctite is needed.
Also great care was given to keep plugs to a minimum and there is only a single visible plug and one hidden plug.

[Knuckle Dragger]

My take:

I personally don’t mind the standard cocking solenoid, especially for what it cost me in time and money to get the clean e2 covers for my fleet and you can find brand new solenoids for 25 dollars online. Now if that solenoid assembly can be integrated into an e2 housing, I’ll bite if there’s a noticeable benefit.

A sweet modern slim contoured frame with recessed grip screws would be amazing! I understand the width is due to the clapper and battery, so the thin part is being optimistic. Maybe see if you can work with Brandon at SciFi Paintball to make adjustments on his board to match the new frame and trigger if you don’t use the current trigger. Maybe make the frame universal to Inception/Empire bodies too! I will buy a frame if it’s not a rehash of the NDZ. Find a company to make grips that have a window option on the side for a SciFi board. Someone here may know how to get in touch with a manufacturer for the grips.

I love the your valve idea and it’s serviceability compared to the MQ. I really hope you can get the results you’re after so I can plop one in my Orracle.

I know it’s asking a lot and this is a very niche market, but damn it would be nice to have modern electrococker parts to prove we too can keep up with the Jones’s. I wish I had the resources to help you keep things moving.

[Jordan]

Why not use an SMC noid like the one Evil used on their Pimp?

I feel like a 1W draw is sort of going to be hard on battery life.

[pumzele]

So no one really interested in it?
The reason to move away from the E2 solenoid to the MAC:
1. More reliable
2. Higher pressures
3. Higher flow
4. Rebuildable
5. Smaller
6. Lighter
7. Something different and new

I just wanted something smaller and lighter.
If anyone can tell me what feature on my design is off putting or would make it look "Cooler" let me know.
The design is made to be as little material as possible so I can add meat to it if need be.

[pumzele]

My take:

I personally don’t mind the standard cocking solenoid, especially for what it cost me in time and money to get the clean e2 covers for my fleet and you can find brand new solenoids for 25 dollars online. Now if that solenoid assembly can be integrated into an e2 housing, I’ll bite if there’s a noticeable benefit.

A sweet modern slim contoured frame with recessed grip screws would be amazing! I understand the width is due to the clapper and battery, so the thin part is being optimistic. Maybe see if you can work with Brandon at SciFi Paintball to make adjustments on his board to match the new frame and trigger if you don’t use the current trigger. Maybe make the frame universal to Inception/Empire bodies too! I will buy a frame if it’s not a rehash of the NDZ. Find a company to make grips that have a window option on the side for a SciFi board. Someone here may know how to get in touch with a manufacturer for the grips.

I love the your valve idea and it’s serviceability compared to the MQ. I really hope you can get the results you’re after so I can plop one in my Orracle.

I know it’s asking a lot and this is a very niche market, but damn it would be nice to have modern electrococker parts to prove we too can keep up with the Jones’s. I wish I had the resources to help you keep things moving.

BTW I already have a Board and Frame design
Frame is thinner as it is intended to work with my Valve and Board
My Board is colour OLED, USB and Wireless enabled, temperature sensor, RGB indicatorLED, Bolt sensor, LiPo and 9V, sound, and a bunch of other features you don't really need.

What makes you want it integrated into an E2? Do you like the design more? Or is it literally just the E logo on the side? This design is better in almost every aspect accept maybe looks hence why I was wanting feedback...

[Knuckle Dragger]

I remember the drawing of your trigger frame and I like it. I would like a contoured back strap or hump, recessed frame screws if possible, and universal between WGP and Inception so I can drill one of Simons bodies! After I complete my Orracle of course.
I like the design of the solenoid being completely enclosed instead of the bottom portion being exposed. The logo doesn’t mean anything to me, I’d prefer a blank cover if I had an option. If your new solenoid can be made to fit in an e2 or a similar enclosure, I would go for it. I like the exposed goodies, but not for my current builds. I want smooth and clean lines, tight hoses and little to no exposed wiring. Plus I spent a lot to track down clean e2 solenoid housings for all my Orracles.
I’m curious how the other solenoid is functionally better than the original. Is it worth the extra expense and design headaches if the end results are equivalent or marginally better than the original design? Does the higher pressure help with faster cycling rates?

I want to emphasize I’m all for making these old gals run against most modern guns and I’m in agreement to and all for buying if your cocking solenoid is an improvement. It just needs to look pretty. Maybe offer the housing as an up charge option.

[pumzele]

This version is like an FLE as it has the absolute minimum amount of Aluminium on it, but enough so it won't snap of.
In fact it will be cheaper to make a box like design similar to the Eclipse solenoid but that would make it heavier.
I can do it, I will see if I can do it quick and get back to you guys.
I just need feedback, It would be cool if people could write what they like please!

[pumzele]

Would this be better?
Same form factor just more meat on it, it will be 35% heavier than the version on top though, and would have an extra part (the cover).
Obviously I still need to add some smart way to attach it and the exhaust holes are missing, still need to add those (the tiny holes on the sides).
But this is just a quick mock up. Would be interested to see what people perfer: Exposed parts and super light, or everything clean and heavier.
Or would you prefer a cover for the first version? I like both versions but if I was a customer I would buy the first design because it is lighter...

The last picture is just to show with cover off.

[Knuckle Dragger]

I like the covered version. Looks refined and more robust, plus it leaves an area for your branding. If your board design will accept lipo batteries, then the power draw from this solenoid may not be so bad.
Is there a reliable way to make the solenoid and manifold linear rather than stacked? May make manufacturing simpler and you meet your weight goals.

[pumzele]

There is no manifold. The Mac Solenoid acts only as a pilot valve and is a 3way valve not a 5way as is needed for autocockers.
In the top section there is a spool that acts like an ordinary mechanical 3 way.
The front end of the spool is directly coupled to the LPR pressure while the back part is connected to LPR via the pilot valve.
The back area is however bigger than the front.
When the pilot valve is activated the the pressure behind the bigger area is dumped and the spool is shifted into the second position.
This is the basic operating principle of an indirect acting 5way solenoid
It's functioning is very similar to the standard SMC vale just with much more flow with airline routed differently so to reduce part count.
There are no special seal. Standard metric o-rings are used on the spool and plug.
There are airways connecting the pilot to the spool ends but these are routed internally in such a way that only a single plug is being used.

Anyone else want to give feed back?
I actually think the second version will be better just because it will be cheaper to machine, but it will be heavier and there is an additional part that is needed...

[December]

I prefer the first version. Make it different for what it is. Great job.

[DavidBoren]

I like the naked version... something more Mad Max/steampunk/custom about it. And the reduced mass is nice, even if it costs more. I would at least offer it as an option.

The covered version is more refined, and offers good real estate for custom milling. Probably would be more popular, which is good because it will be cheaper to produce more of.

[Knuckle Dragger]

Agreed with having an option.

[jerryjjackson69]

I really like the first version. I might actually build an eblade again if this is all available in the future.

[latches109]

So no one really interested in it?
The reason to move away from the E2 solenoid to the MAC:
1. More reliable
2. Higher pressures
3. Higher flow
4. Rebuildable
5. Smaller
6. Lighter
7. Something different and new

I just wanted something smaller and lighter.
If anyone can tell me what feature on my design is off putting or would make it look "Cooler" let me know.
The design is made to be as little material as possible so I can add meat to it if need be.

1. SMC is rated for millions of cycles
2. ? why would you want high pressure on a 3way, less efficient and paint chop
3. ? eblades will cycle at an insane fire rates with the current flow.
4. SMC is rebuildable if you know how

5 - 6 -7 & "I just wanted something smaller and lighter." these make sense - I would get one

FLE version is better - a quick release mounting point would be nice. plug and slot could work.