Monolithic Nelson

[Lane]

KMDPB Yeah, it'd have to be a custom extrusion die; not super cheap but not the worst either. Injection molding for the grip frame and possibly pump is where it would get considerably on expense.

Dropped the one pump guide inline with the top vertical ASA screw. Looks like it would work well and give a bit better spacing to the guides. Also mocked up a flat pump rod, not crazy about it and I'll probably take another look at a phantom style pump rod with a roll pin to stop it. May just need to lower the pump rod a bit to avoid it interfering with the sear on the hammer.

[Lane]

One last update for the weekend, looks like the roll pin will work by heightening the pump arm a little, also need to work out the sear and bolt design to keep it from hitting the roll pin when fired but looks doable. Mocked up a sear and trigger to get a general idea on spacing and while not final the concept seems good. Only main issue right now is the pump arm hits the trigger while pumping. Might need to change the safety type or relocate it.

[BlindFaith429]

I really like how this is coming. Interesting concept about using a single extrusion for the bulk of the body.

How do you plan on attacking the rectangle "slot" through the body? Part of the extrusion?

I did a little bit of aluminum extrusion at my last job. Tolerances had to be kept in mind when designing (obviously). For the fit around the flat pump arm, and the trigger plat, I would think it's doable. I can't imagine you'd want a super tight fit anyways.

And how is the rear valve assembly held in? I dont see any screws. Is this something you're still working on? Or is that what the threaded hole in the bottom is for?

[Chuck E Ducky]

Dose it need to have a safety?

[Lane]

I really like how this is coming. Interesting concept about using a single extrusion for the bulk of the body.

How do you plan on attacking the rectangle "slot" through the body? Part of the extrusion?

I did a little bit of aluminum extrusion at my last job. Tolerances had to be kept in mind when designing (obviously). For the fit around the flat pump arm, and the trigger plat, I would think it's doable. I can't imagine you'd want a super tight fit anyways.

And how is the rear valve assembly held in? I dont see any screws. Is this something you're still working on? Or is that what the threaded hole in the bottom is for?

The slot would be part of the extrusion. As I get to a more refined design I'll reach out to extruders on DFM feedback regarding tolerances, etc. The grip will need to wrap up and to the underside of the valve where there will be a threaded hole to fasten it in place.

Chuck E Ducky , that's a good question. I'm leaning toward one. Do most modern markers not have safeties?

Print from this morning. Just through a barrel into the body without the barrel insert but gives a better idea on overall layout.

[Nish]

If I remember right safeties we're mostly an insurance thing.

I know that the decision to not include one on the Gargoyle was purely because RTR didn't like the way it looked with one.

[Chuck E Ducky]

All modern electro don’t have safety’s is it still an insurance thing? Or just at one point it was.

[Lane]

The insurance thing makes sense. I could see it being phased out with the requirement of barrel bags at fields. It's a nice to have but if it causes a bunch of issues I can always pull it.

[Grendel]

Sorry if I missed this already but how do you plan on air getting from the vertical ASA to the Valve; external tube like the Phantom?

I am really impressed with where this is going, I would definitely be interested in this because it is not just a rehash of what when before but is a complete different direction. The only thing close to this would be NW Sales's Spitfire that I can think of off the top of my head. I love the integration of a under barrel pump and the integrated VSA. Also looks like you are planning a slide trigger which is the way to go. Always preferred old school LAPCO slide triggers to the other Nelson Clone swing triggers.

[Lane]

From the vertical asa to the valve it would be external routing like a phantom (braided, hardline or micro). Trigger is currently hinged, it's just longer to try and limit debris from getting into the frame.

[Axel]

For this to be "monolithic" you should technically be carving it out of stone. Just saying 😜

[Lane]

Very true haha. Could also call it the Mono

[Lane]

Few small updates. Worked on the bolt a bit and dropped the catch diameter and recess by .050" to buy the sear a little more clearance from hitting the pump stop when tripped; this along with updating the sear seams to accomplish that.

Looking at targeting a pump stroke around .95"; my phantom's around ~.9" and a few other nelsons i have are closer to 1" so figure it's a good middle ground.

What's everyone's thoughts on cup seals / valving? Right now I've got an acetal/delrin one in place that I think would be sufficient, trying to keep from going more complicated if possible. For the power tube, pretty straight forward at the moment.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I like how CCI dose there cup seal it’s flipable and lasts forever. Those plastic non rebuildable seats like in the Hammer 7 are junk and always leak. CCI are just a small brass cup that holds a disk like rubber seal. Carful not to make the end the power tube the cup seal attaches to thin. Some Nelson’s had issues with that area being to thin there is a bit of stress on that point that’s not realized and they would break. Yours looks beefy and durable I like that. That cup seal looks large by comparison it may restrict flow on the valve around the cup seal.

[Lane]

Doing some optimization of the barrel insert and the Autococker thread depth has a pretty good effect on this. It looks like most AC barrels don't have threading past a 1/2" from the shoulder and I think I recall reading somewhere that modern AC barrels have a significantly shorter thread length then the older barrels for easier removal and install? Is this pretty much true? If so I may go to a .600" thread depth on the insert to save about .150" in material length.

[Lane]

Updating the barrel insert and bolt design. Went to a 1" pump stroke and positioned it so the paintball is well seated into the barrel when chambered.

[Lane]

Updated the body and valving slightly and mocked up a quick 1911 style frame to see how it feels. Printing now.

[THE SHOOTIST]

You can increase the efficiency by tapering the base of the Power Tube and boring the inlet holes at a angle. Air hates 90 degree turns...

[Lane]

You can increase the efficiency by tapering the base of the Power Tube and boring the inlet holes at a angle. Air hates 90 degree turns...

Agreed, just recently changed over to a Empire Trracer style cup seal design which is similar to a CCI seal. It would allow for the design to be pretty easily tapered at the air inlet.

Printed out some parts to get a better idea on fit/feel. Overall not bad, may look at going to a slightly thinner grip. The printed version is .75" thick (plus grip panel); I'm a little more partial to CCI's thinner 45 frame which is closer to .625" thick. A slightly thinner and shorter (front to back) grip would also help with trigger reach but as it stands right now it's still pretty good.

One additional item I'm looking at now is the pump arm configuration. With it being a CCI style pump arm the only part stopping the bolt on the forward pump is the barrel insert that's secured in place with a single set screw. I'm wary that overtime that could result in damage to the insert or set screw threads. One option would be to go to side-cocking like the Hammer 7 where it's an uncocking style pump with pump arms that come back to the side of the body and thread into the bolt. This would allow for the body to decrease slightly in height and allow for a slimmer lower body above the trigger, cut a little weight as well. Thoughts?

[Chuck E Ducky]

Any time you can move the web of your hand closer to the line of the barrel you get an easier pointing marker. Nothing wrong with a side cocker like a buzzard style.

[Grendel]

Why not use one of you pump guides as a forward stop. Make it essentially a long shoulder bolt that can be taken out with a Torx/Hex Key to remove the pump. This would also give you the option of hiding the return spring in the pump handle and you would allow the user to adjust the forward movement with shims [washers] including a high durometer washer as a bump stop.