Metal eye pipe for DSR

[drewkroeker]

EDIT: Just got these in from the machine shop. They look dead-on when I measure them against the stock eye pipe. I just need to drill some eye holes and get them anodized. I will test them this weekend.





Howdy folks. I've been thinking about picking up a Dye marker but the main thing that has kept me away is the plastic eye pipe that will break if you tighten your barrel too much. I have read online that you can prevent this by putting an o-ring on your barrel to help space it out. But even so I'd rather have a metal piece than a plastic one. When I saw the metal eye pipe on the new MXR I thought "Oh good, surely they made it backwards compatible with the rest of their products" but my research tells me this is not the case.

So my question is: how hard would it be to take a piece of aluminum tubing with an OD of 0.9" and make a functional eye pipe that fits in a DSR? I have done some ghetto-fabulous mods with a dremel and JB weld but I would want this to be a lot cleaner and more precise. Or, which of the airsmiths on here would you recommend for this sort of thing?

Thanks,

Drew

[Shan1Fat]

Think some folks made some out of brass but got hit with a cease and desist by Dye if I remember right

[drewkroeker]

Yes I think I remember that. It's really too bad because without an intact eye pipe so many Dye markers are just wall-hangers.

[Cyberpyr8]

You might want to reach out to John (IronyUSA) from Method Development. He worked for/with Dye and the new company is making parts and upgrades for several different markers. I'm sure he could tell you why it would or wouldn't work.

[Trbo323]

Dye 2006: let's put some little plastic covers in front of the eyes

Players 2006: let's get rid of these little plastic pieces and replace the eyes with laser eyes

Dye 2007: let's reinvent the whole breach and make it plastic

Players 2007-current: omg why?

Dye fanboys 2007-current: the new generation eye pipe doesn't break

Dye current: don't make a metal version that doesn't break or we will sue you

I have a dm6, the eye pipe is the sole reason I have not tried to purchase anything newer from dye.

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[Cyberpyr8]

I have argued this over on PBN with John and others. It is a solution to a problem no one had, that causes more problems. They claim it makes breach breaks so much easier to clean up. But the truth is, in 2024 how often do we have breach breaks? But even if you do, I have shot out the eye pipe on the field and rendered my Dye gun useless for the day. It happens more often than Dye seems to think it does (and several other people have said they have done it too). At least if I had a breach break on a PE gun I could turn off eyes and still work, maybe even run a swab through it and clean most of it up. If you clean out the gun on the field and lose the eye pipe you're done. It is a terrible design and the reason I wouldn't stick with a DSR. I really like the way the DSR shoots and feels but that stupid piece of plastic can easily ruin the whole experience. The MXR with a locking metal eye pipe is better than before, but still not what I would consider a good solution.

[Ecapnation]

This is the reason I haven't bought a DSR to mech.

I had a dm12 years ago that ate eye pipes and I just ditched it

[Frmrspec]

Who has actually confirmed that dye sent a cease and desist.. I don’t see any actual legal grounds for serving a cease and desist. That’s like dye serving a cease and desist for a trigger, or upgraded bolt …

I feel like this is the same as the “exploded dark dm4” story that EVERYONE perpetuated for years despite all involved parties saying otherwise

[Trbo323]

Who has actually confirmed that dye sent a cease and desist.. I don't see any actual legal grounds for serving a cease and desist. That's like dye serving a cease and desist for a trigger, or upgraded bolt …

I feel like this is the same as the “exploded dark dm4” story that EVERYONE perpetuated for years despite all involved parties saying otherwise

It's a patented piece of dyes design. How can you not see the legal grounds?

You can't patent a trigger in general(well, technically you could but you would never win a single court battle about it) but you can patent the exact mounting that only fits in a dye marker

At this point the dm7 is 17 years old, the patents run for 15 years. In THEORY you could start making first Gen eye pipe. I say theory because often times there are ways of extending a patents life through revisions and what not or patenting something that the original tech relies on to work

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[Frmrspec]

it’s an upgrade. Dye has never pursued anyone for their upgraded bolts. Hell a company was making metal eye pipes for the Dye dam and they made HUNDREDS, and dye never went after them.. people have made upgraded rotor parts, zero litigation.. like I said I think it’s an old wives tale, or justification for charging the obscene prices… there’s more grounds for them going after someone for trademark violation if they call it an eye pipe than there is patent infringement .. call it a breech sleeve instead


fuck it. Anyone want a metal eye pipes, I’ll make em.. let dye come after me

[tyronejk]

I bought one of the first brass eyepipes as a tester and the guy who made them told me he got a C&D from Dye.

[Trbo323]

it's an upgrade. Dye has never pursued anyone for their upgraded bolts. Hell a company was making metal eye pipes for the Dye dam and they made HUNDREDS, and dye never went after them..

How do you know they didn't have dyes permission to do it though?

If whatever you are making relies on someone else's patent, typically licensing is possible, just depends on the patent holder though and what they want to do. Money is a pretty good motivator though.

I'm not trying to influence you either way just trying to let you know how things work. Hell if anything I'm rooting for you to make them. I think the eye pipe is hot garbage that anyone in paintball for more than a second can see was a bad idea.

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[Frmrspec]

How do you know they didn't have dyes permission to do it though?

because I talked to the machinist that made them

If whatever you are making relies on someone else's patent, typically licensing is possible, just depends on the patent holder though and what they want to do. Money is a pretty good motivator though.

you don’t need permission or licensing if you change the design

good news is a fair amount of my wife’s side of the family are lawyers and a few specializes in intellectual property

[tyronejk]

good news is a fair amount of my wife’s side of the family are lawyers and a few specializes in intellectual property

I'm not a lawyer, but Dye's C&Ds in this case I think is just a bluff. If you have free lawyer advice in the family, I think you can make this happen.

[Trbo323]

Playing dyes side here but you are not changing the design you are changing the material. You have to fit it in the same spot the original one is in so unless you have some trick up your sleeve that would make it so when two are put on a table in front of a judge they can see a difference besides material, you are fairly constrained in what you can do.

Now if you were to drill the breach in further and make your eye pipe then replace a section of the breach that would be a completely different story. There's no way I could see dye being able to argue your eye pipe is the same as theirs if you can't drop it into an unmodified marker. But of course, that would require drilling the marker, something I bet most people won't want to do

If I were to put money on it though I would say you would probably be fine. You easily have the best legal backup one could hope for and I really doubt dye would want to waste their time coming after something that I bet they see as small potatoes

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[PyroWeasel]

Are there any updates to this? Following intently. Please DM.

[tyronejk]

I'm also interested in any updates drewkroeker

[drewkroeker]

I am pleased to announce an update for this idea. If you check the first post, I have a picture of my aluminum eye pipes.

My OCD wouldn't let this go so I went to a machine shop and had them make me some. The more I buy the cheaper the unit cost. One pipe would have cost $1500 CAD. I decided to get ten and they cost $270 CAD each after shipping. Which is cheaper than me buying a mill and trying to make them myself lmao 🤣

I think I will keep three or four of them. I am not looking to make a business out of this, also I am not looking to get in a legal scrap with Dye's lawyers. I would be willing to sell the remaining six for cheap. If I don't sell them they will just sit in a box in my room. I would love to get them out to some Dye shooters who will make use of them. Message me and we can figure something out.

Some things to keep in mind: they are unanodized aluminum currently. Also they do not have eye holes drilled except for one that I have tested. I figured it was less expensive to do this myself, plus they don't need eye holes in a mech DSR. The blue plastic detents need to be shaved on the outside with a utility knife in order to slide down into the breech. If you break a ball in the breech
it will require extensive disassembly to get everything clean. That being said, they are dead-on accurate when I compared them to the stock eye pipe with my dial calipers. I have shot probably half a case through one of them and they work just fine.

So yeah, if you want one message me and I can hook you up. 😀