Autococker Raceframe

[Blackmagic71]

Somebody around here probably needs/wants this and it doesn’t appear to be bonkers “Curated” prices.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/405259289894?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=yzvy7bs6svc&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=Ffp-wkuSTe6&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[jetenginekyle]

"it doesn’t appear to be bonkers “Curated” prices."
Only because that guy hasn't seen it yet, he will be making an offer very soon.

[Trbo323]

Why do people like the race frames? I can understand the rest of the race cockers, they look good and what not but the frames always seemed to be the oddball.

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[XEMON]

How do you program those?
Can you do it from the frame or you need the serial interface with the 20yo software?

[DarkApollo]

With the cable and 20 year old software that works just fine on W10..
Give me that over trying to memorize trigger pulls and blinky lights..

[XEMON]

Sounds great 👍

[Painthappy]

... and sold!

I may not need it in the end, if I don't end up using it, I'll sell it for what I paid to the fine members here.

[DarkApollo]

Why do people like the race frames? I can understand the rest of the race cockers, they look good and what not but the frames always seemed to be the oddball

Oddball how so?

[Trbo323]

Oddball how so?

Self contained battery, different voltage so you can only run a race noids. The programming port. I'm not sure about direct programming of the board, if that's a thing or not or if it's different at all

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[DarkApollo]

The rechargeable is nice because I can just charge it and be good for 20k+ shots. They werent the only manufacturer to use a rechargeable either. Angel stick batteries come to mind. Back in 2000, there was no standardized electro. While 9v is the norm now, back then everyone was trying to make their mark and offering something different.
The only noid that is different is the sear noid. EBlades use 6v 3way noids and Race uses 5v. The plug is different but one could splice the wires and the eblade noid will function on a race frame.
It can’t be programed directly. Back in the day that was tournament rules. You had to either tourny lock out the board or somehow prevent players from changing the settings during a tourny. Make it not able to program directly solved that issue. But really, how often are you changing settings during a game?

[Trbo323]

The rechargeable is nice because I can just charge it and be good for 20k+ shots. They werent the only manufacturer to use a rechargeable either. Angel stick batteries come to mind. Back in 2000, there was no standardized electro. While 9v is the norm now, back then everyone was trying to make their mark and offering something different.

No they weren't the only ones to use a rechargeable but they were, if my memory is correct, the only ones to do it on a cocker platform. It's like they tried to reinvent the cocker and at that point it was basically already set in stone.

The only noid that is different is the sear noid. EBlades use 6v 3way noids and Race uses 5v. The plug is different but one could splice the wires and the eblade noid will function on a race frame.

What? You just started by saying the sear is the only different one and then listed that the cocking noid is both a different voltage and plug..... That's different. The only other thing that really matters is how it mounts. 5v to 6v is a 17% over volt.

If you believe you shouldn't run a board designed around lipo 7.4v on 9v then why is it ok for the noid? 7.4v to 9v is an 18% over volt for reference

It can't be programed directly. Back in the day that was tournament rules. You had to either tourny lock out the board or somehow prevent players from changing the settings during a tourny. Make it not able to program directly solved that issue. But really, how often are you changing settings during a game?

Can you program it in the staging area without a laptop? That's what I'm asking. I'm not trying to change settings on the field. You can't do that on a e1/2 either. You need to open up the grip panels to get to the programming button. Basically I'm curious if you can still program these at all since it uses a pretty outdated port


You could make the best marker in the world but make it in 62 caliber and it's not going to sell. My point is that these are oddballs. If it works for you great, I own a vanguard creed, it's an oddball for sure. 3 different o ring styles, 3.7v lipo, a board that doesn't actually turn off ever, common tire Schrader valve in the LPR. but I absolutely love how it shoots and some of the ideas vanguard had when they built it that's why I keep it.

The tire Schrader means I can always get LPR seats. The main poppet uses an o ring as it's sealing surface so I can always replace that. The board is absolutely fantastic, easy to use and the LCD is bright enough to be seen in sunlight.



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[DarkApollo]

No they weren't the only ones to use a rechargeable but they were, if my memory is correct, the only ones to do it on a cocker platform. It's like they tried to reinvent the cocker and at that point it was basically already set in stone.

In 2000/2001 EVERYTHING was being reinvented. EBlades just came out, Sandridge F5 was introduced (talk about oddball?), RaceGun released their first frame, Centerflag debuted their Electro-mechanical Uprising frame, etc. E-frames were the new hotness and they all had their gimmick to make them unique. All but the EBlade started as off the shelf mech frames. So companies had to work with what they could get. I have the milling schematics for turning a standard 45 hinge frame into a raceframe.

What? You just started by saying the sear is the only different one and then listed that the cocking noid is both a different voltage and plug..... That's different. The only other thing that really matters is how it mounts. 5v to 6v is a 17% over volt.

Ive run eblade noides on a raceframe.
If you want to be specific about ‘whats different’ between two -competing- cocker e-frames then obviously there will be differences. The differences are minor on some things, major on others. The minor ones are so minor they can be changed in a pinch to work. So you can use the 3way noid but not the sear noid. That was my point. I can use a Humphries noid out of an Alias Timmy, too. Ive done that for a customer years ago who broke a barb off in their F1 noid (tighten till it stops leaking… snap), then butchered it trying to get it out and asked if a Timmy noid would work. Made the wires longer and sure enough it fired just fine with the same settings.

If you believe you shouldn't run a board designed around lipo 7.4v on 9v then why is it ok for the noid? 7.4v to 9v is an 18% over volt for reference

you realize that boards don’t run at 9v, right? They all step down to 5v or 3.3v as is the standard for most chips. 9v became the standard because of convenience not because its better.

Can you program it in the staging area without a laptop? That's what I'm asking. I'm not trying to change settings on the field. You can't do that on a e1/2 either. You need to open up the grip panels to get to the programming button. Basically I'm curious if you can still program these at all since it uses a pretty outdated port

It is weird now, but back in 2003, when the tournament scene was in full swing and electros were hitting the market, if you get caught messing with settings, you could get penalized. So when these were new, that was a pretty good solution.

And yes you sure can still program them since they work with serial to usb cables. Unless you are using a Mac which doesnt have USB..

You could make the best marker in the world but make it in 62 caliber and it's not going to sell. My point is that these are oddballs. If it works for you great, I own a vanguard creed, it's an oddball for sure. 3 different o ring styles, 3.7v lipo, a board that doesn't actually turn off ever, common tire Schrader valve in the LPR. but I absolutely love how it shoots and some of the ideas vanguard had when they built it that's why I keep it.

The tire Schrader means I can always get LPR seats. The main poppet uses an o ring as it's sealing surface so I can always replace that. The board is absolutely fantastic, easy to use and the LCD is bright enough to be seen in sunlight.

They work and work very well. They are no more of an oddball than any other 2000’s era e-frame, in that they are all oddballs. Each one was different to stand out for something. Even WGP made the oddball Trilly Sport pneumatic frame.

[Trbo323]

Ive run eblade noides on a raceframe.
If you want to be specific about 'whats different' between two -competing- cocker e-frames then obviously there will be differences. The differences are minor on some things, major on others. The minor ones are so minor they can be changed in a pinch to work. So you can use the 3way noid but not the sear noid. That was my point. I can use a Humphries noid out of an Alias Timmy, too. Ive done that for a customer years ago who broke a barb off in their F1 noid (tighten till it stops leaking… snap), then butchered it trying to get it out and asked if a Timmy noid would work. Made the wires longer and sure enough it fired just fine with the same settings.

Yes, YOU can use it, Billy Joe average though A) doesn't know that and B) probably shouldn't be messing with trying to splice wires anyway. Mods are common around here but that doesn't mean the rest of the world knows it or should be attempting them.

If that noid was the same on the other hand, or even just had the same plug, no mods would be needed

you realize that boards don't run at 9v, right? They all step down to 5v or 3.3v as is the standard for most chips. 9v became the standard because of convenience not because its better.

I never said one was better than the other?

Also you are avoiding the question. If it's common practice to tell people not to run a board designed around 7.4v on 9v, then why is it acceptable to over volt the noid by roughly the same margin?

It is weird now, but back in 2003, when the tournament scene was in full swing and electros were hitting the market, if you get caught messing with settings, you could get penalized. So when these were new, that was a pretty good solution.

I'm sorry but no it's not. Having to pull out a laptop and USB cable to change stuff, needing an entirely different piece of equipment is not a good solution, I don't care what time frame we are talking about. I'm sure they Envisioned this cyberpunk future where everyone always had a laptop on them at all times but come on, they had to know that not all of their customers would have laptops, they were really expensive at that point anyway, so you are forcing those players to not be able to change anything while at the field should they discover a problem

And yes you sure can still program them since they work with serial to usb cables. Unless you are using a Mac which doesnt have USB..

Can you change anything while at the field without having to pull out the laptop? ROF? Eyes on/off? I'm assuming not timing

They work and work very well. They are no more of an oddball than any other 2000's era e-frame, in that they are all oddballs. Each one was different to stand out for something. Even WGP made the oddball Trilly Sport pneumatic frame.

Yeah I pretty much avoid this era. And then Super Nova has to go and dump something like a tribal in my lap which tries to burn down my paintball bench (because of sloppy QC I might add!)

I think there are a lot of odd things that came out of that era but that doesn't make them good odd.

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[DarkApollo]

Yes, YOU can use it, Billy Joe average though A) doesn't know that and B) probably shouldn't be messing with trying to splice wires anyway. Mods are common around here but that doesn't mean the rest of the world knows it or should be attempting them.

If that noid was the same on the other hand, or even just had the same plug, no mods would be needed

So then what is the problem. Eblade uses this plug, race uses this other plug. There is no 'industry standard' for that, but shockingly more companies used the pico molex plug for things, so really, eblade is the oddball plug. The fact that both 3way noids operate off of 5v was the point I was making.

I never said one was better than the other?

Also you are avoiding the question. If it's common practice to tell people not to run a board designed around 7.4v on 9v, then why is it acceptable to over volt the noid by roughly the same margin?

Im not avoiding anything. You arent over volting a solenoid when the board is sending 5v to it. The eblade solenoids I have are rated for 6v but that doesnt mean the board is sending it 6v. The board is already stepped down for 5v for the microcontroller. How much sense would it make for the board to have 5v, 6v, and 9v steps just to run the microcontroller, front noid, and clapper noid on their own voltage rails? That is a lot of wasted energy that could be used for cycle time.

so you are forcing those players to not be able to change anything while at the field should they discover a problem

What exactly are you thinking would be a problem that you just noticed when you got to the field and not when you were setting up the gun? Unless you are tuning as you go?
How many times have you adjusted the timings at the field after getting the gun set up? I never have. Once it is set up, anything that is an issue is not going to be related to the electronic timings. It isnt like a set screw that came loose and the 3way coupler rotated throwing the timing off (Ive had that happen). The frame isnt going to magically forget what 15ms dwell is.

Can you change anything while at the field without having to pull out the laptop? ROF? Eyes on/off? I'm assuming not timing

Again, what exactly are you trying to change during a game? If you are in a tournament, you cant change the settings once the marker is inspected. If you are not playing in a tournament, than, again, what does it matter? Every field I have ever been to has full auto, 3 burst, and ramping disallowed for walk on groups (Ive been yelled at for 'full auto' from an RT Mag once). So again what are you doing if that is your concern that you cant change settings on the fly? Are you hoping to light up some poor walk on with ZOMGBBQWTF 30BPS RAMPING!!!!!!? Are you swapping rams on a game break that might need a higher front noid open time? Are you drastically changing the input pressure that would require changing the dwell time? If not, than the inconvenience of not changing the settings is rather moot.

I keep bringing up tournaments because that is what dictated the rules of the boards that were created back then. That is why the Spyder E-Triggers were not tournament legal, you could literally change the settings on the fly with no way to lock them out.

And yes you can turn the eyes on and off. Hold the arrow keys on the grip.

Yeah I pretty much avoid this era. And then Super Nova has to go and dump something like a tribal in my lap which tries to burn down my paintball bench (because of sloppy QC I might add!)

I think there are a lot of odd things that came out of that era but that doesn't make them good odd.

It doesnt make it bad odd either. Everything was odd back then because it was a new era. Nothing was standard. So a 4.8v rechargeable in a frame was not odd. They were inherently tournament legal, which was the point of them. Barrel threads werent even standardized back then. You had spyder threads, cocker threads, 90 different SmartParts threads (and they still do this crap.. like what even is the barrel thread for the NMY??) and that was just normal. When electro frames were coming out, there was no standards to use. Everyone was doing something different to be competitive. The fact that Race lasted until 2005, and was basically shut down when WGP sold out, should say they werent odd enough to be shunned by the market.

I was questioning your statement about "Why do people like the race frames? [...] the frames always seemed to be the oddball.". You never really said why they were odd when they are no more odd than anything else from that era. You pointed out things you didnt understand and then tried to discredit the information as to why things are, or I guess assumed the EBlade was standard and everyone should have followed suit with them even though all of these things came out in relatively the same time? I dont know.

This thread has completely derailed though. At this point I cant tell if you are being pedantic, obstinate, or obtuse.

[Trbo323]

So then what is the problem. Eblade uses this plug, race uses this other plug. There is no 'industry standard' for that, but shockingly more companies used the pico molex plug for things, so really, eblade is the oddball plug. The fact that both 3way noids operate off of 5v was the point I was making.

You are really backtracking yourself a lot

The only noid that is different is the sear noid. EBlades use 6v 3way noids and Race uses 5v. The plug is different

First they are the same, then they use different plugs and voltage, now you are saying they both operate off of 5v instead of the 6v you claimed earlier

My whole point was that they used different equipment. Yes the e1 and 2 came from eclipse but remember the later select fire frames from WDP also used the same noids and plugs, all those parts are interchangeable. The e1 had set enough of a standard that WDP themselves felt it was worth using

What exactly are you thinking would be a problem that you just noticed when you got to the field and not when you were setting up the gun? Unless you are tuning as you go?
How many times have you adjusted the timings at the field after getting the gun set up? I never have. Once it is set up, anything that is an issue is not going to be related to the electronic timings. It isnt like a set screw that came loose and the 3way coupler rotated throwing the timing off (Ive had that happen). The frame isnt going to magically forget what 15ms dwell is.

No it's not going to forget. But 15ms might not be sufficient for field conditions when you tuned it indoors in a nice warm room with different paint. Going to a 3 day event? There's no chance at all that the field conditions can change!

Messing around at home, playing with different modes, don't worry! There's no way you'll ever forget to change it back after something calls you away. You are a perfect human who has never forgotten anything!

That's great that all your fields are semi auto only, that's absolutely an industry standard and no field anywhere allows anything else. The other modes are there for no reason whatsoever and nobody, ever wants to maybe, change something in the middle of the day because the change sounds...idk....fun?

Seriously, that's great that you are happy in what you run but the way it's designed is a serious lack of flexibility. I'm not saying changing modes on the field, never have, get over that. In the staging area though, you should be able to change anything you need to, with a tool like a wrench? Yes, that keeps it tournament legal. a completely different piece of equipment like a laptop? Come on

I keep bringing up tournaments because that is what dictated the rules of the boards that were created back then. That is why the Spyder E-Triggers were not tournament legal, you could literally change the settings on the fly with no way to lock them out.

Yeah I understand that. That's also why the later ones came with tournament locks in the form of jump connectors. A way to change settings while at the field and still maintain tournament rules since you had to open up the grip frame to do it

And yes you can turn the eyes on and off.

I was kind of hoping they at least had that. Some of the early Bob long stuff around the same era it was not super user intuitive to turn eyes on and off. Bob also changed a lot of stuff mid production so I've come across boards that, with the instruction manual that came with them you couldn't quickly turn off the eyes. You had to go into the menus and find the eyes settings.

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