Electrical question

[Mann]

MCB has a wide array of information. Maybe someone can help me with an electrical question.

I currently have 240V 200A 1ph service on my property.
I have aluminum 4/0 wire ran from the main disconnect (Breaker Box) at the road to a field. The wire runs @ 800 ft.

I am looking at putting 2 chillers at the end of the 800ft run.
The electrical rating from them says that they each require 100A breaker (87 amps @ 230V 1ph)

Can I do this? by my math it says no, but hoping someone has some knowledge that I am missing.

[XEMON]

There is some online calculator.

Here is your voltage drop:

Voltage drop:21.51

Voltage drop percentage:8.96%

Voltage at the end:218.49

This is a lot of voltage drop ...


In function of the safety margin and calculator you are using, you would need between 4.5/0 and 9.7/0 aluminum wire to carry your 200A specked by the manufacturer.

You could re-wire the line or step up the voltage ...both options are pretty expensive ...

What's your application/industry?

[martix_agent]

I agree. Step up the voltage, or run larger wires.

[Mann]

What's your application/industry?
[/LEFT]

We are wanting an outdoor ice rink to be used in the winter at our summer camp. The chillers state 87a @230v, and we need 2 of them.

[XEMON]

You are way undersize for 2 chillers ...
rated at 87A, with a specked panel at 100A, that mean the power surge is going to be around 120-130A at startup ...

The other options is to pull a second wire and have a dedicated circuit for each chiller ...

[Mann]

Not the answer I was wanting, but I appreciate the advise. Looking into options on just adding a second service with bigger wires now. Thanks

[Siress]

I entirely agree with XEMON, and will add that Al wiring is something I've been cautioned about in the past owing to it's higher resistivity. It is far more susceptible to fatigue failure which could lead to a fire hazard if it's not run in a manner that accounts for the thermal cycling it's going to see as a result of the current. This is why I always run copper. But I'm just a shade tree.

[Marauder_Pilot]

I entirely agree with XEMON, and will add that Al wiring is something I've been cautioned about in the past owing to it's higher resistivity. It is far more susceptible to fatigue failure which could lead to a fire hazard if it's not run in a manner that accounts for the thermal cycling it's going to see as a result of the current. This is why I always run copper. But I'm just a shade tree.

99% of larger service conductors are aluminum because the expense of copper isn't worth it, and aluminum isn't legal any more in sizes smaller than 8 AWG.


That being said, unless an engineer spec calls for copper specifically, I virtually never use it as properly connected and installed aluminum wiring should never be exposed to conditions that could theoretically lead to wire fatigue being an issue.

OP, is it 800' of hydro-owned service conductor from that panel to the nearest transformer or is it a panel mounted 800' from another service? Theoretically, yes, a 200A panel can support a pair of chillers engineered for 100A circuits, however a run that long from a transformer is potentially a problem. I'd phone an electrician to come out and see what the voltage at your panel actually is before anything else.

[Tarsun2]

as someone that gets discouraged by static shocks, this is one of those things that id call a certified pro on. youre talking about a LOT of amps here.
Would 3 phase lower the requirements? idk, im not an electrician. i can rewire outlets and switches at my house and have added breaks to the panel but, like going on the second floor roof from a ladder on the 1st floor roof, im always freaked out and theres a great deal of nervousness... lol

[XEMON]

I am a big fan of 3 phase ... its so much better for the equipment ... But if there is no 3 phase in teh main panel, adding it will cost a fortune (and might not be available at all).

In term of power, its always the same thing. This is dangerous, if you dont know what you are doing, stay out of it ... and honestly, 110 plug or 200A service panel, the danger is the same ... touch it and youre dead ...

[Marauder_Pilot]

Wait are you planning on trying to install these without getting an electrical permit?

[Pyrate Jim]

I had an old house, on a lake. It had an electrical fire due to the old three wire system coming in.
This old house had four screw in fuses and only one outlet on the entire second floor.
I decided to to upgrade. (basically up to code)

I found it cheaper to spend twelve weeks of classes and get certified as an E2 and do the work myself than pay an licensed electrician to do the job.
An E2 can legally do everything an E1 can do except pull a permit.
I pulled the permit as the homeowner, then hired myself to do the work.

So the insurance covered the repair, which included the cost of the materials and unbeknownst to them, the cost of my tuition.
Which told me it's less expensive to educate yourself than pay others similarly educated.
Sorry for the irrelevant anecdote...

But I have one question...

We are wanting an outdoor ice rink to be used in the winter at our summer camp. The chillers state 87a @230v, and we need 2 of them.

Why do you need chillers for an outdoor ice rink in Winter? At a summer camp, no less.
Seems to me nature could do the job, that and a couple snow shovels to keep an area clear.
Not to mention that if you're talking about some pond on the property you'd have to run said chillers underground and underwater in a space that is not prepared as industrial.
Then you need to consider zoning and EPA regulations, and additional insurance.

Not to be the devils advocate here, but it sounds like you have a lot higher hurdles to jump before you worry about electrical supply.
(From the information given)

[Tarsun2]

Winter in south Florida is a whole lot different than winter in Eastern Pa. (and many other places for that matter) lol
And "summer camp" can be a generic coverall term.

a super flat roller hockey rink might be easier and cheaper.

[Mann]

Why do you need chillers for an outdoor ice rink in Winter? At a summer camp, no less.
Seems to me nature could do the job, that and a couple snow shovels to keep an area clear.
Not to mention that if you're talking about some pond on the property you'd have to run said chillers underground and underwater in a space that is not prepared as industrial.
Then you need to consider zoning and EPA regulations, and additional insurance.

Not to be the devils advocate here, but it sounds like you have a lot higher hurdles to jump before you worry about electrical supply.
(From the information given)

We are building a roller hockey rink (or basketball or tennis) for the kids to use during the summer (we are in TN). My thought were that we already are investing in the boards, and a huge flat piece of concrete what else could we do with this area. We have the majority of our kids from May-Aug. I was looking for another fun activity that could be used on fall, Thanksgiving, Christmas, spring breaks. The chillers/pipe are not that expensive (relative to what other activities cost us), and it may help draw kids in during our slower non summer breaks.

We need chillers as our average outdoor temp is only 50 degrees F in Dec-Feb. We already pay lots in insurance this will not affect our rate. EPA doesn't care about us, and we are already zoned correctly.

I am in the process of just getting another panel installed at the road, and we will run another ditch with new wires.

[Jebus]

as someone that gets discouraged by static shocks, this is one of those things that id call a certified pro on. youre talking about a LOT of amps here.
Would 3 phase lower the requirements? idk, im not an electrician. i can rewire outlets and switches at my house and have added breaks to the panel but, like going on the second floor roof from a ladder on the 1st floor roof, im always freaked out and theres a great deal of nervousness... lol

A 3 phase service would lower the Amp requirements, but running all that extra wire would be insanely expensive.

For example, in my line of work I'll use a commercial dishwasher lol.

exact same model except for the wiring.

1 phase 208 would require a 70amp breaker

3 phase 208 would require a 50amp breaker

[flyweightnate]

If it's just the branch, you're going from 3 (or maybe 4!) conductors to 4. Not too bad if you can go with smaller gauge.

But if it's new service... yuck.

[mtaylor]

Roller hockey sounds like a much more cost effective and logical option, much as I love ice.