Why the USPS is Insane

[Seajay]

For a business I have to imagine there is something more you can do. Fleet pricing is always cheaper so there must be a contract arrangement you can do with a shipping company to make delivery easier.

Once you get into large enough scale the costs of packaging and things goes dramatically down. That's why you get stupid packaging like an entire box for something that could easily fit in a padded envelope. You may have to upfront more cost to begin with on materials but it should balance out during the year.

[NSGSplatmaster]

Thanks for the recommendation. I am not a business. I was doing this jam stuff as a side hustle and I am also a USO volunteer. I decided to merge the two together. I don't have a lot of costs I can incur for higher quality packaging, packing foam, etc. I'm already operating with a so-so profit margin and I am rapidly approaching the point where it would be a better deal for me to just donate the money to the USO from my own pocket rather than go through the effort to do this jam/jelly thing, if mailing was my only audience. Thankfully, I've done pretty decent with in-person sales.

[maggot]

Like anything, varies by locality and quality of that local management.
For example: St. Louis USPS is pretty decent. Chicago, especially the distribution center, is a joke.

Package contents with foam wrap (multiple layers for glass contents). Goal should be to package things well enough to survive a 5 foot drop.

All shippers will fight insurance claims tooth and nail. Instead of spending money on insurance, spend it on packaging. You'll end up better off. Here's a link to buy foam wrap:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193840272378?hash=item2d21c7d3fa:g:FyAAAOSw09JZxakj

[Jordan]

I'll second that Chicago sentiment... everything coming my way that goes through Chicago sits there for up to 10 days before continuing.

[DocsMachine]

It's worth noting that the Post Office, nationwide, handles close to half a billion pieces of mail every day. That's everything from Autocockers to junk mail.

For the Christmas rush, they'll be handling almost thirty million just packages every day. And that number is pre-Covid, it would not surprise me if that's gone up by a solid 30% at least, since then.

The vast majority make it to it's location safely and on time. But if it's anything valuable, as noted, pack it to survive a plane crash.

It's also worth noting that the various packing and transport systems are more or less optimized around the Flat Rate and other USPS-branded packaging. If you use one of those, if possible, it improves your chances of the item surviving.

Doc.

[Seajay]

So you aren't promoting the use of those pre-defined "free" boxes which you use your own package wrap and postage for cheaper.

[BrickHaus]

On the note of flat rate. It all depends on weight. Take a mask for example. You can get a 12x12x12 box, and ship a mask by dimensions, and weight. Itll run ya 8 ish bucks domestically.

Ship it in a large flat rate box, its what 21? Flat rate?


On the other hand. I sent 5 sheridans to WALZ with other acessories all in a flat rate box. Made many layers of " spines" and zip tied markers and aceasories to each spine. Loaded it all in a flat rate and used some high end house sealing tape to make sure the box stayed shut. It was upwards of 20 pounds, and would have costed 60 ish to ship by weight. Was 21 flat rate.

So you really gotta play their game to your advantage. Package stuff super well, and heavy when using flat rate.

[BrickHaus]

Im with the majority. I find my local usps, and every local one Ive lived at to be a pleasure to deal with, and it my perfered way to ship. They will see you packaging stuff, and offer a different box thatll ship cheaper, and or advise you pack stuff better to keep it alove. Ive lost ONE package using USPS, and I packed it like crap compared to the rest. A lot of the time, I package at the store, and I love the fact that the flat rate boxes are free so I use em as packaging.


My rule of thumb was shake the box before taping. If you hear ay movement, repack. Though, the one cocker that was damaged when I shipped it I did this. I packed that in novapack bags, and it popped them on an impact, then it got all bad.

Since then, I package stuff like a mad man, and I have no issues. You also have to understand the contents of a package shifting unexpectedly will increase chances of droppage. If someone tosses your box expecting it to fly as a mas, and an unseen mass changes how it stops, the resupt is your stuff getting broken.


My favorite trick, it go to usps, grab a bunch of flat rate boxes. Take em home. Use the flat rates to cut up as " spine material" and zip tie your shipped items to the spine. So unless its essentially captured suspended in the box on one plane. Then pack like normal on both sides. Sometimes Ill double wall the sides too.

My only other option is the ups store, which is considerably more expensive for the same serviices, and not as convenient.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Oh yeah I pillage the free boxes and use them as shipping material all the time. Even tho the boxes self seal I still tape them to.

[BigRed]

I've never had a bad experience with USPS/Canada Post, lucky I guess. Like many of us, I've been buying or selling paintball stuff for longer than I care to remember and I always seem to get my packages, The oddest thing I've seen is last year I sold a Taso Raincover to a member in NJ. I watched the tracking for a couple of weeks and it sat in a sorting facility in NJ not far from the buyer. Then, off it went to a PO in Japan! We watched it go across the country and over seas, then the amazing part...just like Captain Spears in Band of Brothers...it came back! It took a good couple of months of watching the tracking updates but it finally got there!

[Chappy]

, so again, you can consciously choose to mishandle this merchandise, and I am paying for insurance. Every time you choose to consciously break the contents of my package, I will invoke the usage of the insurance that I have purchased from you. We can go through an indefinite loop of breaking things and claiming things, if that is what you guys want to do." "Well, that's not how it works, you need to just be understandin' that we throw stuff and you can't get mad if things break." Of course, like most government robotic workers, this lady didn't get it. She was pre-programmed from the factory with a few NPC dialogue lines and my dialogue tree had ventured far outside the realm of comprehension. Perhaps this is a start of a video game achievement where I see how many times I can have a package destroyed consecutively and how many times I can request reimbursement for it. .

Unfortunately this won’t end how you predict. The multiple insurance claims on the same issue will be used as evidence against you that it is obviously not packed well enough. Pack more securely, or your just throwing the insurance money to the wind. And if you think switching to ups will lower breakage… maybe, but I’d still improve your packing. Ups busts our stuff all the time.

[Fubarius]

I worked for FedEx Ground for a bit as a trailer loader. This was the business to business division, but I doubt the system is too different between all the assorted shipping companies.

So on a good day, with everything working perfect, expect your package to be on a high speed conveyor belt 20 feet in the air. A laser reads the barcode on the shipping label and when it's by the correct trailer an arm swings out and deflects it off the belt. So to simulate this take your package and give it a good strong heave to slide it across your kitchen floor so it bumps into the refrigerator.

Once it's off the belt it has to get down to the trailer, so goes down a series of rollers until it reaches a slide, about 8 feet long, which it slides against until it reaches some more rollers on the bottom of the trailer. Generally followed by more packages. Anything over 50lbs is too heavy for this system, but a LOT of people are very good about packing a box to 49.9lbs, so expect a package that size to come flying off the roller/slide into your package. To simulate this take your package to a playground and fling it down the biggest slide they got, then send a 6 year old child down after it.

Once it's in the trailer it's now sitting on a set of rollers installed in the floor of the trailer, but if it's an empty trailer there's also the belly, the section that's actually below the floor. The floor folds up so the loader can stack boxes in the belly. The actual bottom of the trailer is about 4 feet below the roller. And since the rollers, well, roll, there's a fairly good chance your package might just fall off before the loader can grab it. To simulate, take your package and casually knock it off your kitchen counter.

Once the belly of the trailer is full the loader folds down the floors and starts stacking in the main area of the trailer. Of course he/she has to get out of the belly to do this, and yep, its common to use a package or two as a step. Also the ceiling of the trailer is like 9 feet tall, and you HAVE to stack boxes all the way to the top. There's a small step ladder thing to help, but there always seems to be not enough of the darn things for every trailer, so yep, not uncommon to stand on a package or two to reach the top. To simulate, take the opportunity to clean out the back of the cupboards by standing on your package. The good news is that loaders quickly develop a bit of a feel for packages, and can tell which ones are sturdy or not.

Fragile stickers? EVERYTHING has a fragile sticker on it. Heck, I picked up this heavy box just covered in the darn things, only to have three 25lb cylindrical steel billets fall out of the bottom of the box and take chunks out of the concrete floor next to my feet.

Do boxes get tossed around sometimes? Not too often when I was there, but occasionally. Of course things may have changed . Once I had a small flat box that would fit perfectly in an empty spot on the top side corner of the stack, 9 feet up. A quick frisbee toss and it slid in perfect, bullseye. Just as a manager walked by. His exact words were, "1, that was fricken cool. 2, don't ever do that again".

[NSGSplatmaster]

Unfortunately this won’t end how you predict. The multiple insurance claims on the same issue will be used as evidence against you that it is obviously not packed well enough. Pack more securely, or your just throwing the insurance money to the wind. And if you think switching to ups will lower breakage… maybe, but I’d still improve your packing. Ups busts our stuff all the time.

I am not "literally" going to go through a cycle of claims. I was trying to prove a logical point with a poor customer service representative that her logic made no sense. This is the first breakage I have had in 20 boxes or so of shipping jam or jelly. Breakage is a natural part of the shipping process, but so should reimbursement. If I pay for a service (insurance), I should be able to use that service. We all know from how insurance works in general that it never works the way you want it to.

I can use crush proof boxes and invest in the packing foam but I would have to pass that cost onto the customer. I doubt that people want to pay 15+ dollars for home made jelly, but if they do, fantastic.

Ninja Edit: My beef is mostly with the customer service experience and the illogical representations of the service that the USPS should provide, as opposed to the breakage itself. I think people are kind of missing that here. Mitigating a service problem on the customer side does not exempt the service provider from reasonable customer service. I have routinely received poor customer service from the USPS but apparently my USPS offices in my area with my experience are an anomoly.

[NSGSplatmaster]

As if to seal the deal, the second package I had out has mysteriously vanished. 3 day delivery not received way way later than that. Awesome.

[BrickHaus]

Man, its like they have it out for ya at this point.

[NSGSplatmaster]

The Odyssey continues. I was in a rush and succumbed to the convenience of USPS instead of going to UPS. So right off the bat, I totally own fault.

Sent a jam package to someone as a gift around Christmas. Completely destroyed. The box was reinforced cardboard specifically for shipping fragile food items. Lots of tape. Glass was totally smashed, as if someone had thrown the package on the ground. I submit a claim. Receive a letter in the mail to bring the evidence to the USPS physical office weeks later. I go to the local office and the local clerk sees the damage and puts in the claim on her end. I get a denial on the claim because the time line was exceeded.

Obviously, the process has no recourse. You cannot "prove" when you talked to a USPS clerk. Even if you video taped the interaction with a date on it, there is no where to provide that. The USPS claim section only allows for about 200 characters.

No one can say they don't do this on purpose to screw people over.

Thankfully, I have since sent many packages of jam and other items through UPS with zero lost packages or smashed things.


Self addendum: The rhetorical answer is clearly yes. I had an issue recently where an EZ Pass didn't pick up my transponder. The tunnel charged me 2 dollars + a 3 dollar fine. I then sent payment immediately by mail. The payment was not processed by the company until "after the due date", which then had them assess an additional 35 dollar fine. Man, what a coincidence, hmmmm! It's almost like intentionally delaying processes to screw people on money is a profitable business practice!...

[Chuck E Ducky]

EZ pass is easy. Write a letter explaining the situation with a check with the toll cost. - fees and all the BS they tack on. If they cash it your golden. Especially now that they just use plate scanners to charge.

[the_matrix_guy]

Ive actually had worse experiences with FedEx than USPS or UPS. Ive been using USPS 90% for 10+ years, thousands of packages, never had anything get lost, a few delays here and there but nothing got lost, ever. And Ive had a couple of terrible experiences with FedEx regarding bogus surcharges on ebay. I vowed to never use them again — and never have. One example: I shipped a carbon framed performance x-cross mountain bike that weighs like 14 pounds, the whole package was under 20 lbs, and then they surcharged me like $250 through ebay on a “postage correction” saying that it was 80 lbs! What the shit? Yea, I complained and tried to appeal the charge, ebay opened a case and nothing ever came of it. So **** fedex, and **** ebay for even allowing it to happen to their customers in the first place.

[Chappy]

Not defending their actions but, it’s called DIM weight, look it up. All packages are based on a minimum weight based on dimensions. Something of that size will never ship as 20 lbs even if that is all it weighs.
LxWxH / dim weight modifier = the minimum weight the shipment can be billed for.

[the_matrix_guy]

But the measurements of the box were correct and the label was correct, so the shipping label calculator should come up with the correct price for the postage in a straightforward way. But that’s besides the point: The label was like $80 and that’s how much they usually charge you to ship a bike, bicyclebluebook.com charges around that — and when you go to a UPS or FedEx in person, that’s how much they charge not $330 (80 +250) that’s ridiculous

[Jonnydread]

I too have had 98% positive experiences with USPS

[NSGSplatmaster]

Ive actually had worse experiences with FedEx than USPS or UPS. Ive been using USPS 90% for 10+ years, thousands of packages, never had anything get lost, a few delays here and there but nothing got lost, ever. And Ive had a couple of terrible experiences with FedEx regarding bogus surcharges on ebay. I vowed to never use them again — and never have. One example: I shipped a carbon framed performance x-cross mountain bike that weighs like 14 pounds, the whole package was under 20 lbs, and then they surcharged me like $250 through ebay on a “postage correction” saying that it was 80 lbs! What the shit? Yea, I complained and tried to appeal the charge, ebay opened a case and nothing ever came of it. So **** fedex, and **** ebay for even allowing it to happen to their customers in the first place.

Yeah, all of these companies do this insane stuff. There is really zero consumer protection. Sorry to experienced that.

[the_matrix_guy]

Thank you. +1 likewise just read you post above mine and the OP. Its unreal. I never shipped fragile items but yeah for the most part I think USPS is a hit or miss. I’ve had good luck with them, personally, though.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Screw FedEx those tools backed into my a $50k Audi on my car lot and drove off and denied it. I got them on my security camera doing it and the guy still would not admit it. Took the paint chips he left on the side of the car to my Paint supply store and it came back FedEx white. They cut me a check that day for the damages. Treated me like I was lying to. I won’t ship a dam thing with them and if FedEx is the only option I won’t purchase a product.

[the_matrix_guy]

What the shit. They covered the full extent of the damages? Also what model Audi. Inquiring minds and all

[Chuck E Ducky]

It was an S6. I took a hit on the car because it had paintwork. Probably broke even but I had to put a bunch of work into it myself fixing it just to break even.

[Jonnydread]

That's super shady! I feel like there's no integrity with many businesses when money is involved.

[Hp_lovecraft]

It's worth noting that the Post Office, nationwide, handles close to half a billion pieces of mail every day. That's everything from Autocockers to junk mail.

I would believe that number. Years ago, I worked for a company that printed and mailed junkmail. On average, we would do about 1 million pieces of mail a day. And we were just one junkmail printer out of hundreds. The postage on junkmail catalogs is as low as 9 cents.

One weird problem I have been having is with the "amazon driver'. Our regular USPS driver "Patrick" is excellent. Any kind of bad weather, and he will set the packages inside my garage. Never a package missing, out of thousands from Patrick

But Sometimes USPS will deliver packages on sunday, or holidays using a different driver, because the contract they have with Amazon.

Those packages go missing all the time. And the weird part is they get scanned as 'delivered" even though no driver actually delivered. This makes it about 100 times harder to get the package reshipped, or refunded. I don't know if they are going to the wrong address, or stolen from the delivery vehicle, or other anomaly.

It has become such a problem that i'll usually refuse the Amazon "prime"shipping if I'm ordering on thursday or friday. there is an option to refuse it on the "shopping cart" page.

[maninblack2k]

Pre-COVID I never had a claim issue with UPS/Fedex/UPS. Since COVID I've had many multiple with USPS and one with Fedex. All properly packed and inspected. All mysteriously the ones that were insured magically arrived empty, contents partially missing, or just plain lost. Never had anything I sent uninsured have the same thing happen to. Also I've never been able to get reimbursed even though I've submitted everything that was asked. Totaling over $4k in outright theft or incompetence. The point is if it's packed correctly, inspected by the service you are using to ship it, and you can prove that you did everything in your power and exercised "Good Faith" you should be reimbursed. That is clearly not happening today and you need to be prepared to accept losses.

[Agglet]

The crash in service quality with Covid is insane. In Canada you can have firearms delivered to your house (with adult signature). I had a new Walther PPQ delivered and because of Covid they weren't getting signatures or leaving pickup slips they just left a handgun on my front step. That would have been wonderful to try and explain if somebody had swiped it. The box was labelled adult signature, addressee only, do not safe drop etc. Didn't matter. They left right on the ground.