New winner in the shots per second wars?

[un2xs]

Meanwhile on YouYube:

[Trbo323]

I mean, to me he is really not shooting that fast because he is not loading each round or firing each round individually from what I can tell. He has basically made a sand blaster where the rounds are just pushed into a stream of air.

If you count each grain of sand my sandblaster "fires" faster. Or, just get one million bbs and put a lift charge in the bottom of a bucket. That will "fire" one million rounds in a thousandth of a second.

It's a cool piece of engineering but he basically had to redefine the word "firing"


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[JeepDVLZ45]

Agreed! How is it any different from a shotgun firing birdshot?

[DocsMachine]

Trbo has it. There's no bolt/chamber mechanism in that gun- it's an air blast with a spring-loaded magazine of some kind.

Some of you might remember the old "Annihilator" freon-powered "machine gun" they used to sell in the back of magazines. Basically the same thing- all the trigger did was release a spray of freon (at the time, a convenient pressurized gas) and release the BBs to fall into the air stream.

Not that this guy's gun isn't cool, and for that matter, we can't exactly say the 'Metal Storm' is exactly chambering/firing/cycling either.

Doc.

[Painthappy]

Now hook it up to a motion sensor... Told them to stay off my lawn!

[bored383]

expand it in scale and you could have an effective defense against drones.

[Deerslayer]

expand it in scale and you could have an effective defense against drones.

Flies and wasps, too.

[Ecapnation]

My captain did almost this in the 80's

He too some 11/16 bore stainless tube and crunched together a feed port and airline... Used a fire extinguisher as a CO2 source and fed it with a 6 foot long PVC pipe of paint.....

Worked great till it froze. I think I still have the gun in my basement somewhere

[markdem]

im adding the worlds fastest nerf blaster to this thread. wheres the guy with paintball minigun? i feel like he would be floating around this forum somewhere

[Trbo323]

Not that this guy's gun isn't cool, and for that matter, we can't exactly say the 'Metal Storm' is exactly chambering/firing/cycling either.

Doc.

No but to me that one at least does control the firing of each individual round. If you tell it to fire 52 rounds, that's exactly what it will do. This guy's BB blaster can't without just loading exactly 52 into the magazine.

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[Trbo323]

im adding the worlds fastest nerf blaster to this thread. wheres the guy with paintball minigun? i feel like he would be floating around this forum somewhere

From what I remember that thing did 30 or 32 BPS. Nothing really crazy

I've seen a video of a cocker cycling at 54 before. Wasn't actually shooting paint though.

Dye got a , I think it was a modified dm7 to shoot at 40bps to prove the rotor could keep up.

I've heard once you get into 50bps, theoretically you'll be shooting your own paint out of the air. I forget exactly why though

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[DocsMachine]

I've heard once you get into 50bps, theoretically you'll be shooting your own paint out of the air. I forget exactly why though

-Nope. You'd have to be shooting a LOT faster than that.

Heck, it's easy- at 300 feet per second, if you were shooting three hundred shots per second, each one would be a foot apart.

At nominally .680" in diameter, that's over seventeen balls per foot. So you could be shooting ten times that number, or three thousand per second, and still have a small separation between balls.

If a typical marker can shoot 12 balls per second, at 300 feet per second, that's twenty five feet between shots.

(All numbers more or less nominal- we don't need to start calculating wind drag and the like, here. )

Doc.

[Trbo323]

Heck, it's easy- at 300 feet per second, if you were shooting three hundred shots per second, each one would be a foot apart.

That's what it was, your math here is not wrong but it's also negating to factor in what's actually happening in the barrel.

Ball 1 is fired

But ball 1 is still in the barrel when ball 2 is fired. This means in front of ball 2 there is more pressure than what was in front of ball 1 thus slowing ball 2
Ball 3 is fired
But ball 2 is still in the barrel and isn't even as far down as ball 1 was when it was fired due to it being slowed. This in turn slows down ball 3 more than ball 2.

This may also start to affect how much air can come through the valve each shot with enough back pressure

Repeat until 2 balls collide in or shortly after the barrel due to wild changes in velocity

This does also rely on the exact condition of your barrel, where the porting is, when the pressure behind the ball drops to 0 ect. But as a rule of thumb I always heard that 50bps is the theoretical limit out of a single barrel while at or under 300fps

No real way to prove it though. Even a rotor may not even be able to feed that fast

Q loader though.......hmmmm

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[DocsMachine]

Oh sure, if we actually tried to do it, all sorts of real-world effects would come into play.

The first and foremost being that the paint would have be falling into the breech at several hundred feet per second. They would, of course, be unlikely to survive long enough to be fired.

I saw the aforementioned DYE video, and assuming it wasn't faked somehow, was indeed showing 40 balls per second. But we're talking nearly an order of magnitude faster than that.

That's like taking an F1 car, that can do a legit 220 MPH, and trying to push it to two thousand miles an hour.

Yeah, if you could fire paint at three hundred per second, there'd undoubtedly be all sorts of aerodynamic effects and the like. But at "just" fifty per? Probably not.

50/sec is one shot every 20 milliseconds. At 300 FPS, a ball travels 3.6 inches per millisecond. Multiplied by 20 equals 72 inches, or six feet even. That's a lot of gap for one ball to affect the next.

Doc.

[Trbo323]

.

That's like taking an F1 car, that can do a legit 220 MPH, and trying to push it to two thousand miles an hour.

What? Apples and oranges. Top speed mph and rate of fire also, how does that math work?

220 to 2000 is almost a ten fold increase

40 to 50 is a 20% increase

50/sec is one shot every 20 milliseconds. At 300 FPS, a ball travels 3.6 inches per millisecond. Multiplied by 20 equals 72 inches, or six feet even. That's a lot of gap for one ball to affect the next.

Doc.

Sure at 300 that's true, but in the barrel they are accelerating not already at 300 so that first 12 inches takes longer than most other 12 inch spans until the paint really slows down. Then if you have ball 1 exit at 240fps and ball 2 exit at 300, ball 2 catches ball 1 pretty quickly. Even if the gap starts at 6 feet a 60fps difference means .1 second to catch it, you are still shooting your own paint out of the air

Now if you have a pretty short barrel and ball 1 can clear the barrel or at a minimum the porting so the pressure in the barrel can be released before ball 2 is fired, it would most likely solve this problem

I would still be curious if it would be possible for ball 2 to catch ball 1 based on a slipstream effect but I would think the larger issue would be getting enough air to actually flow through the marker to have any kind of consistency at such a high rof.

Didn't Tom Kaye say the mag valve had some theoretical rof based on recharge rates?

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[Deerslayer]

220 to 2000 is almost a ten fold increase

40 to 50 is a 20% increase





Sure at 300 that's true, but in the barrel they are accelerating not already at 300 so that first 12 inches takes longer than most other 12 inch spans until the paint really slows down. Then if you have ball 1 exit at 240fps and ball 2 exit at 300, ball 2 catches ball 1 pretty quickly. Even if the gap starts at 6 feet a 60fps difference means .1 second to catch it, you are still shooting your own paint out of the air

Now if you have a pretty short barrel and ball 1 can clear the barrel or at a minimum the porting so the pressure in the barrel can be released before ball 2 is fired, it would most likely solve this problem

I would still be curious if it would be possible for ball 2 to catch ball 1 based on a slipstream effect but I would think the larger issue would be getting enough air to actually flow through the marker to have any kind of consistency at such a high rof.

Didn't Tom Kaye say the mag valve had some theoretical rof based on recharge rates?

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1. He was talking about the increase from 30 bps to 300bps - an order of magnitude.
2. In order to shoot your paint balls out of the air, the trailing ball has to be traveling faster than the leading ball. However, all of the balls are slowed by drag, less the 'drafting' effect. Too, inside the barrel, a faster trailing ball will compress the air ahead of it, pushing the first ball out of the barrel. I suspect some very complex math would be needed to suss this out definitively. Then we need to construct a test gun to get some empirical data.