Airsoft/Speedsoft

[Magmoormaster]

Could have sworn there was a dedicated airsoft section here. Must have been the old version?

Anyway, I'm very casually kicking around the idea of getting into speedsoft. I don't see myself actually doing it, but having fun exploring the options anyway. Wanted to explore the gear a little bit, especially with those who are knowledgeable with paintball and could make comparisons with brands/models. I went to a local store this evening, and talked with their manager a bit. He competes in he SpeedQC league, and had some good recommendations. But at the same time, he wasn't interested in getting into the nitty gritty.

First off, I'm not interested whatsoever in milsim. If I'm using the correct terms, I would be most interested in some sort of euro style build. Looks like a stripped down, bottomline type setup. Basically an EMF100 with an ID FLE body. Everyone online and the guy at the store recommended either a complete custom build (heretic labs) or getting a G&G SSG-1 and modding it. From the sounds of it, G&G is sort of like the tippmann or planet eclipse of airsoft, which would be the route I'd want to take. I'm interested in exploring other brands though. I'm less interested in tuning and more interested in plug and play. Looking for more of an emek type experience than an autococker (despite my love for cockers).

IDK on whether or not I'd want to go HPA or not. On one hand, I already have the tank, but on the other it is way more expensive. At semi-auto ROF I can't imagine AEGs are inconsistent enough for it to matter. If I did go HPA, I'd be much more likely to jerry rig something using paintball stuff cuz holy hell airsoft regs are stupid expensive. Seems like a simple task to use a phantom 45 block (or similar) and a bottomline reg of some kind. As long as the output pressure is right and the air fittings are right it shouldn't matter, right?

At a certain point, the draw of airsoft to me is that it would require less gear than paintball (not to mention the lack of mess and generally lower price). Obviously there are mags, but not needing a tank and hopper would be kinda nice. Hence, AEG is appealing. There's also green gas but it looks like it's a lot less popular.

What is maintenance and/or tuning like on these? AEG or HPA.

Also, what is this constantly having to wind mags nonsense? Is that just a cheap rental thing or are all mags like that?

If a paintball store wanted to start carrying airsoft gear, what brands should they look at? I know some paintball companies (valken, hk army, tippmann) have airsoft lines, which would be convenient for a store that already has accounts there. Again, I keep hearing about G&G. Curious about others.

----

In addition to inundating the proshop guy with all sorts of questions, I did a rental package and played a couple games. The experience was weakened by the ref jumping on and playing (IDK why that should ever be allowed when everyone is new), but it was fun. Got shot a few times, got a few kills. Had some sort of M4 type gun (I believe they were G&G, again) and the ergonomics really threw me off, hence wanting a euro style build. I was not anticipating actually playing, otherwise I would have brought my own mask. I forgot how much hard plastic masks can dig into the ears. Anyway, I thought it was funny; I got hit more often from ricochets off of walls behind me than actual hits.

Obviously I have lots of thoughts an questions swirling around my ADHD brain, and this is not my most coherent post.

[jetenginekyle]

sport rivalry aside us and airsofters are playing the same game with different gear. I don't have any answers to your questions though like you I've had bisportual curiosity.

[Magmoormaster]

haha yeah, I've spent most of the last 20 years poopooing on airsoft, it felt a little dirty walking into an airsoft store

[antifat]

I've looked into this before as well, I did see that at all of the fields around me if you wanted to use HPA you need a way to cover any adjustment with a cap secured by a zip tie. There are also electronic drum mags available, but quality seems to be hit or miss.

[Carp]

Magmoormaster The "Special BB Squad" section pretty much died off with the MCB 2.0 version. It had a sub-section in the "Off-Topic" area.

Previous threads about topic:
MCB 3.0 "Special BB squad" section? thread
MCB 3.0 Special BB squad? thread


Sorry that's all I got.....

[Magmoormaster]

ah yeah I forgot that's what it was called. Surprised it never made its way to 3.0

[the_matrix_guy]

I really tried airsoft with some of my friends who were huge airsoft guys. And I just couldn’t. The amount of people that cheat / play-on after getting hit is ridiculous and basically ruined it for me. Unless you play eith a close knit group and everyone abides by the honor system…

think about it, even in paintball there’s a fair amount of cheating and playing on after being obviously hit… and that’s with a blotch of paint.

In airsoft, I’ve hit people on the side of the head from 40 yards where they rub their own head for a moment — then kept playing. I’m like “really?” And what are you gonna tell strangers, “hey man you’re a cheater I shot you on thr side of the head and you kept playing” it’s so pervasive that I rather just save my breath and energy.

[Jonnydread]

This was my experience too. I played backyard airsoft with some friends and it was fun, so I tried it at a CQC indoor field and nearly every time I did a run-through or snap they would turn and shoot after I hit them. It seems the milsim airsoft crew and the speedsoft crew have some ideological differences and the milsim folks didn't like the way we were playing. I'm sure there are some good groups out there, but my experience was enough to stymy my interest.

[the_matrix_guy]

Exactly. You can do a flanking move which obviously puts you in a vulnerable position, you can shoot a couple of people, and they will just keep playing and either shoot you immediately if you aren’t well covered or rush you with a bunch of dudes which you already had shot.

This even happened to my friend and I simultaneously when we did a pincer double flank behind a house. We shot them all then they lit us up before walking out. I get that sometimes reflexes play into it but there was time for them to register “hey i just got shot in the back, I got outplayed” instead of turning around to shoot back

[JeeperCreeper]

I know the HPA engines are cool, and more pricey. Still cheaper than most high end paintball markers though. From my experience, an AEG is good enough, especially for someone trying it out. There's a ton of manufacturers, so just do your research on the model you want. Also, I don't know if it's really less gear, you have to carry mags somehow. And anyone who just wears goggles is just asking for chipped teeth. I always wore a JT mask to cover my ugly mug.

The mags: high cap mags require winding. Mid and low caps usually don't. High caps are usually 300 rounds where mid and low cap are generally more "realistic" and are spring fed. High caps rattle like crazy, too.

Personally, when I used to play, I didnt encounter that much cheating. I just didn't like the energy of the local crowd. Many people just wanted to play army. The vibe just wasn't the same as paintball for me. I also feel like it's really easy to not feel a hit, and it's hard to dispute if you did or not.

My recommendation is to try to borrow a rig, see if you like it first. See if there's any local groups or teams around and talk to them. They would definitely have more insight on what gear you should look for.

Have fun!

[Magmoormaster]

Re: HPA vs AEG, I know the price isn't that different from a high end paintball gun, but I'm not at a point in life where I could justify spending that much. I'd be fine with a "good enough" AEG, I think.

Re: less gear, paintball has gun, tank, hopper, mask, harness, pods. An AEG has gun, mask, harness, mags. And considering that I rarely shoot more than one pod a game when playing paintball, I doubt I'd need more than one extra high cap mag with airsoft.

[Magmoormaster]

Ima bump this cuz I can.

I've been doing a lot of research into airsoft gear and honestly I cannot believe how janky stuff is. I sort of understand speedsoft stuff, since they're basically trying to retrofit an airsoft gun to have paintball gun ergos. They've only been doing it for a few years, and they don't have enough volume to make something actually good. But it's all built like paintball stuff was 25-30 years ago.

Couple examples:

-The HPA kits are electronic, and you have to adjust settings and whatnot to get it to shoot well. The board has a display, but I have yet to find an example where you can see the screen without taking the board out of the gun. I understand having a screen visible would kill the realism, but like make a cover for it or something. And even the speedsoft guns, where you really wouldn't care, the board (or "FCU," as they call it) just kinda dangles inside the grip.
-The ESG grip takes an HPA gun, which normally uses a remote line coming out of the pistol grip, and basically turns it into a bottomline setup. There's a female reg that you screw the tank directly into. Seems cool, but the grip is essentially just a cradle to hold the reg, similar to the old unimounts. So they're super bulky. I'm also 95% positive they're taking a standard industrial compressed air regulator and upcharging a substantial amount to an unsuspecting public. They also just have a plastic air line (Ion size hose) running inside the grip from the reg to the engine. And this kit, for a 3D printed version with the reg included, is almost $300. Seems machining or molding a grip with the reg and airline milled together like an emek is just too much for them.
-The Polarstar Kythera is a mechanical HPA engine. But instead of using a mechanical solenoid like the Emek or similar, it uses this strange trigger linkage that I cannot explain but it's really stupid. It's also funny to me that most airsoft fields ban double triggers or any firing mode that's not full auto, yet most HPA kits are electronic.
-Airsoft batteries are weird. AEG stuff makes sense, they probably require different voltages and whatnot to run. But even the HPA kits use weird LiPo batteries instead of standard 9v batteries or something. I know for a fact that the solenoids they use require the same (if not less) energy to run than our paintball guns. But no, you need a weird proprietary battery instead.

And don't even get me started on how janky AEGs are.

It's simply astounding to me that the base price for an off the shelf HPA speedsoft gun is $1000 (Heretic Labs Article 2), and I can get an Empire Mini GS for $325. Minis might be a bit janky themselves, but at least they're full metal. Maybe the EMF100 is a better comparison (it's composite, and magfed), but that's still only $550. Almost half the price.

Also, airsoft still seems to think barrel length, bore size, and closed bolt affects accuracy. That both amuses and depresses me.

Also also, it's ironic to me that to most people the appeal to airsoft is the realism, yet they can't be bothered to use parts compatible with real guns. Even things as simple as M16 pistol grips are proprietary to airsoft.

With the advent of competitive speedsoft leagues, and the associated gear, I think airsoft as a whole is positioned to take a massive bite out of the paintball market. That fact is what led me to research the industry. But with where they're at now, it ain't happening. The level of refinement just isn't there yet. Parabolic Paintball has a side company called Arc, they make a cool speedsoft style gun. But it's $1800. One of the big selling points is that it has an on/off ASA. As far as I can tell, they're the only ones to have that feature. Just unreal. The whole industry is so focused on supposed realism that they hinder themselves from making products that are actually good. Speedsoft gear should have escaped this, but that mentality seems to linger. Maybe 5-10 years from now, airsoft guns will reach a level of refinement comparable to paintball, and maybe speedsoft fields will be more common so people can actually play it. And with those things, paintball might be in trouble. As it stands, I have no desire to make the jump.

Anyway, for anyone who cares those are my thoughts and ramblings after a month or so of ADHD hyperfocus. I'm sure no one cares, but the whole thing is wild to me and I wanted to get it off my chest without getting flamed on reddit.

[Levi]

I have zero interest in playing airsoft, but this was a very interesting read.

[Riot]

Airsoft is like paintball without the gay undertones.

[flyweightnate]

Airsoft is like paintball without the gay undertones.

Not sure if you intended this as an insult or endorsement. Probably depends whether this is an airsoft thread or a paintball thread.

[Magmoormaster]

Welp..... I caved to my GAS. I just bought a Hi Capa, which is essentially a racegun 1911. Speedsoft leagues require 2 players per team to be a pistol player, and having watched a lot of gameplay footage looks like a lot of fun. Honestly, I kept bouncing back and forth between wanting something and not, and it was driving my wife crazy. Finally decided to just get it over with, get it out of my system. Got the gun, a couple extra mags, a tracer unit, and some soft goods (pants and hard pads). If nothing else, I'm looking forward to trying some new stuff out.

[Chappy]

[Magmoormaster]

I ordered online so once everything comes in I’ll be sure to post pics.

[Magmoormaster]

My new Hi Capa came in today. Took me forever to take the orange tip off (had to take the upper almost entirely apart and boiled the outer barrel) so I could put the tracer unit on.

As requested here are some pics:




It's heavier than I thought it would be, not in a bad way. Feels pretty well built. I'm excited to give it a go.

[Toestr]

Is this a proper TM Hi Capa? My friend let me try his and I was impressed by how heavy it felt despite being plastic.

[Magmoormaster]

Nah, it's an Armorer Works Custom Hi Capa. Pre upgraded, and apparently not really compatible with TM parts. Good way to prevent it being a huge money pit. I'd be too tempted to upgrade the crap out of it otherwise.

I should mention that this one has a metal slide and frame, the grip is still plastic though.

[SignOfZeta]

Airsoft is like paintball without the gay undertones.

So it’s worthless then?

[Kanto]

Let us know how it goes. I am in the same exact position of being goaded into playing airsoft by a few friends. Was considering getting a pre upgraded High Capa (Nov SSp5) or an AAP 01 and going the build myself.

On thing that has been interesting to me, is just how unreliable airsoft guns are. It seems like even high end guns aren't paintball reliable. My guess is it's some combo of small complex parts and and overall much less emphasis on preformance. It seems pretty normal that even well reviewed markers don't run well out the the box without replacing parts. I guess that's also part of the cheaper price points.

I don't think it'll feel scratch the paintball itch for me, but it might be a fun way to spend more time with buddies.