why no more new nelsons?

[SignOfZeta]

When you’re asking why a product isn’t on the market you have to imagine the place in the market where it would theoretically reside.

Phantom: The only Nelson you can easily buy more than one of at any given time. The new owners couldn’t make money at CCI’s prices so they raised the price, A LOT, and contrived unneeded complexity to justify the increased prices. The result is that the stuff is at once ruined AND overpriced. Today a person pays more than ever for the first Phantoms in existence that won’t run off CO2 and the owners just tell you the problems aren’t real. Hopefully they sell the whole thing off but I don’t know to whom.

Used Phantom: there were about 40,000 of these made, many many many still function and can be had for their original retail price or lower. The current best bet.

Gargoyle: While they do seem to work fine they are impossible to find and make even EV Phantoms look cheap.

JT ER2/ER2S: very good price! Terrible gun that is literally painful to use. Also out of production, I’m pretty sure.

Carter: gone/expensive

Nelson: gone

PMI: Gone

Line SI: Gone

Taso: gone

Rebline: gone


So…it’s a weird scene. You’d think there would at least be a Ali express clone or something. To me it’s weird that people would rather buy/make more complex snipers without auto trigger than make Nelson’s but that’s the way it is.

Where in this scenario does a new Nelson fit? Would it be US made? If not…I probably don’t want it. I really truly prefer US made stuff. Nova could offshore you a Phantom and you’d only have to fix three things out of the box but…why? Just to drive down the price of a used Phantom? And how long would the Novantom be on the market? That company is clearly flooding the market and won’t be doing in five years what it’s doing today. Not even GI/JT/Empire can support making that many guns at once, which is why you can hardly find Empire Snipers or ER2Ss at any price.

If it is US made then you have to at least match CCI quality with EV price. That’s possible for sure but not easy. To do it in a way where the gun stays on the market for years and years? I don’t know.

[Chuck E Ducky]

It’s just a cup seal issue the ones EV made are sticky when using CO2.

[SignOfZeta]

It is absolutely not just a cup seal issue. The 2.0 “Phrame” is a total POS. Adding two teeny cuts to the 2.0 breach tripled its price and they sent to me with o-rings that don’t fit, essentially deactivating the feature I paid for. The worst part is customer service telling people their problems don’t exist. I’ll buy parts from them for as long as they are available but I’ve completely written them off as a company.

[Chaos]

ER2's are still readily available at Walmart...The ER2s however has been long since discontinued. They aren't bad markers if you do a bit of work to them

[coyote]

The Nelson platform has declined in the market as we moved away from CO2.

A Nelson pump was a fabulous platform for CO2. Today's pursuit of a sub 150 psi operating pressure runs counter to the Nelsons greatest strengths.

[Drunkscriblerian]

I was wondering the same thing, and then I looked at the market from a manufacturing/sales perspective. The answer is "the market is full already".

Between CCI's production of the Phantom (a lot), PMI's production of the Trracer (even more), how many clones of both came out back in the day, how these guns basically don't die (not much to go wrong that can't be solved with o-ring replacement) and how sneaky-snipey pump play is a niche hobby, well...between that and the Sheridan P-series modders/builders doing their thing, there are enough extant guns to satisfy the demand paintball currently has.

And if someone wants to get hardcore into making a pump gun competitive in a modern environment where stealth isn't a factor and rate of fire matters, a Nelson-style pump isn't what they're gonna reach for. I've used a Phantom; they're great for sneaky woodsball stuff but try and use them in a Hyperball/Speedball type environment and you're toast unless you're A: extremely lucky B: extremely aggressive and C: very much willing to run your ass off.

Plus as others have mentioned, making a new one (at least in the US) would cost a lot...to the point where you'd basically be competing with EV's Phantom reboot, only you wouldn't have brand loyalty/name recognition in your favor. So when I look at it like that I can see why no modern manufacturer has come up with a new one.

Simply put; paintball as a hobby would have to drastically and fundamentally change before producing a new Nelson-style pump would be financially viable. I won't rule out that happening, but that's what would have to happen before Nelson-style pumps would be produced again.

[maninblack2k]

Azodin still makes pump markers. I have a KPC+ which is a really good pump that's priced fairly. I don't know what it's based on but it's a solid product that works.

Also Nova now makes a pump as well for $699 I believe. Looks like a nice unit but I've not shot one yet.

[Moodog]

Neither of your examples are Nelson-based

[SignOfZeta]

Azodin still makes pump markers. I have a KPC+ which is a really good pump that's priced fairly. I don't know what it's based on but it's a solid product that works.

Also Nova now makes a pump as well for $699 I believe. Looks like a nice unit but I've not shot one yet.

Both are Sheridan based, not Nelson.

Both are Chinese (or mostly).

Neither have auto trigger.

At least one has quality issues.

And lastly $700 is more than a Phantom even now.

[Luscious]

Arrow is still producing the Stirling too but for some reason you can't buy them in the UK (Where they are made) but they sell them in Australia who were willing to ship me one. I love pump but nobody else plays round here leaving me bit of an oddball and annoyance to other players at events.

[Grendel]

Stirlings are cool and good ones work great but they are not a Nelson/Nelson clone but a stacked tube design similar to Sheridan that uses some Nelson valvetrain design.

[Mr.Rush]

Didn't First Strike make a nelson based bolt action somewhat recently?

[Nish]

Didn't First Strike make a nelson based bolt action somewhat recently?

I believe it was called the about. They apparently didn't sell great because I remember a holiday fire sale where they were like $200-$250.

[Ecapnation]

I bought one and boy were they overcomplicated for a nelson

[nuclear zombie]

I believe it was called the about. They apparently didn't sell great because I remember a holiday fire sale where they were like $200-$250.

I never knew about the Scout until now, nelson based mag-fed would be interesting except the msrp of $799.

[cockerpunk]

im kinda shocked anyone is putting any money into developing new paintball stuff. seems like the market for all of it is shrinking, rather than growing.

[Ecapnation]

On top of that it's all "trend whores" and hype product now... The market is fast and fickle.

[martix_agent]

im kinda shocked anyone is putting any money into developing new paintball stuff. seems like the market for all of it is shrinking, rather than growing.

There's also a good 10+ years of really good stuff in the used market already existing. The excitement for new releases is very low anymore.

[SignOfZeta]

Arrow is still producing the Stirling too but for some reason you can't buy them in the UK (Where they are made) but they sell them in Australia who were willing to ship me one. I love pump but nobody else plays round here leaving me bit of an oddball and annoyance to other players at events.

Sterlings aren’t really a Nelson but they do exist on the marketplace with a similar audience and therefore make it just slightly harder for a new Nelson to pay the bills.

Due to the effed up distribution of the Sterling it’s hard to compare prices exactly but the current STP exists at around the same price point as a nice EV Phantom, if not cheaper, and it is a WAY nicer gun, IMO, especially for open class. Anyone designing a new quality affordable pump is really competing with the Sterling…or rather they would be if the distribution wasn’t so effed…I’d like to blame Brexit somehow but it was actually like this before so there’s just…some other reason you can only buy Sterlings in Australia.

[gabe]

It's just too easy to make a sniper out of the thousands maybe million+ of autococker bodies out there and all manufacturers now have to do is make a simple pump kit.

Every field now has field air/hpa so CO2 use is pretty much out of the question. No need for a gun that runs well pretty much only on CO2 or HPA at very high pressure. Couple that with extremely brittle paint and nelsons can be (but not always) problematic to keep from breaking paint. Barrels are limited so even just getting set up to bore size is difficult. Everyone has AC barrels in their stash so any new Nelson would need to be AC threaded which is difficult with such a small body and working around existing bore/breech drop designs.

Basically the market has spoken and the nelsons are not the choice. Economics, parts availability, and performance have all favored the Sheridan/Sniper/Autococker platform. With paintball shrinking the market just isn't there for a new nelson when you can get a used sniper or azodin for a fraction of what an EV Phantom costs. Inside a tiny paintball market, trying to target an even smaller pump market with a less popular platform is not a winning business move.

[MrKittyCatMeowFace]

I want a Tiger Shark II (including colored ICE bodies, but less brittle). .

Only thing I would want, is it to have a velocity adjuster, and be able to put a 10in freak barrel on it. Pump stroke could benefit from improving too! XD

[KMDPB]

Amen brother