Not Politics

[redsquirrel]

Ha, I feel like one more day of this thread being open and it will actually become political.

[Grendel]

It is bound to happen, always does then a Mod has to swing in and close the thread

[russc]

One of my favorite aspects of this forum over the years has been the no political rule.

[Fubarius]

Here's some advice I was given a long, long time ago that will help the original poster. And it has actually nothing to do with politics, but EVERYTHING to do with how people get information.

This was back last century, 94 or early 95ish. I'm attending the local community college, taking some computer courses, hanging out in the computer labs to take advantage of their dedicated T1 line instead of suffering through a 28.8 kbps dial-up at home. I'm just a dumb kid fresh out of high school. One of the older students working as a lab monitor gave me some advice when I was having some trouble setting up a Telnet chat room client. (And if any of that makes sense to you, hello of my fellow Gen X Nerd)

He said the internet has 3 rules to survival.

1: Never post things under your own name.

2: Once posted, whatever your wrote is not under your control anymore, and may be there forever.

3: Assume EVERYTHING everyone else posts is a lie.


Number 1 is for basic safety. Lots of horrible people out there, and they're all on-line, so give them nothing to track you down in real life. Plus people change, get older, their frontal cortex finishes developing. So you don't want what you posted as a dumb stupid edgelord kid getting connected to your adult life.

Number 2 is a continuation of that, but is specific to how information is handled on-line. That's not on YOUR computer, or written in some journal you can tear up to destroy forever. That information is on someone ELSE'S computer, which you only have limited access to. You post something stupid and often you CAN'T delete it, and even if you can it may very well be copied and re-posted by someone else with it seconds. So for your own good, best not make that stupid edgelord post in the first place. Though with the age of the internet is also means that resources you assumed would be on-line forever may disappear at any time.

And number 3 is the most important one today. People lie. Bad people lie a lot. Good people lie to, but maybe for what they feel is a good reason to. And it's 1000X worse on-line. No, that Nigerian prince won't send you a million dollars, no the post office doesn't have an undelivered package for you, no you don't need to click on that link in the e-mail immediately to secure your Amazon account....

And no that perfect vacation your friend posted about on facebook wasn't actually that perfect, they just showed you the best parts and didn't mention the 2 days of rain, the malfunctioning boat, or the crazy amount of mosquitos that forced everyone inside all night.

No, that instagram model you follow isn't actually that hot, she's using a filter.

No, that guy doesn't have proof the earth is flat, he's just a crazy guy going through an existential crisis and needs to feel significant.

And no, that crazy "truth" posted on social media that makes "the other political party" look bad isn't true at all. Just someone making up stuff to try and get likes and retweets or whatever gives them a dopamine hit on that particular platform.

[Grendel]

I spend a fair amount of time trying to limit the trackers on my phone. The big reason this phone was purchased at full price from the manufacturer to limit the amount of bloat wear already installed then I still went through the process of jailbreaking and rooting the phone and have limited the amount of apps I load. I am not particular paranoid or feel I am being targeted as an individual I just get sick and tired of people tracking and selling what I do. The ironic thing is I am a Field Performance Analyst for my company and make use of app tracking and telemetry as part of my day to day job. I suppose that makes me some type of hypocrite

[Bang*Bang**]

A three part lesson that's becoming part of curriculum, if I'm not mistaken.

Wise words.

[Daltech]

“The data hits the internet the data is forever”

[chrislognshot]

will not happen since tried once and went bad. do not need it in this group

[Bang*Bang**]

Overwhelming, "NO" heard.

I've been around since MCB 1.0 days. I get it.

Seems like those on here have been able to largely dodge the spin factory of social media, or are aware and taking steps to avoid the polarization it feeds off of and into. That was my main concern anyways.

I just didn't want to loose you, my precious MCB.

I'm going to assume the "members section" is the obscured-from-google "private" section you're referring you, Painthappy ? (Insert green member subscription plug here, as if Walzmas isn't enough of a reason already, lol)

If anyone has more info on the Discord or wants to spin up a Signal Messanger chat, I'm down with that too. DM me, open invite. I'll just leave that out there.

I still think paintball could save the planet. I'll leave it at that.

Stay cool, friends.

[BrickHaus]

Technically walzmas is open to the blues. It's secret Santa that's a privilege.

[cockerpunk]

we dont really have political differences anymore. we have moral ones. a political question is how we should administer and pay for healthcare in our society. a moral one is who should have healthcare. thats the real reason why our politics has become so toxic, we arnt actually talking about politics, we are talking about morality.

i also very much disagree with Fub's advice. as someone who has been myself, a full person on the internet my whole life, i personally believe that a key problem with our discourse is that people have been able to remove their humanity from there internet identity. yes i was on 4chan in in the early 2000s, i know how anon works. the solution to all those issues, is actually to have human relationships, but through the internet, rather than erasing our humanity is order to be on the internet.

plus, only cowards can't stand up for themselves with there full selves. cowards hide behind systems, processes, and screen names. cowards hide behind words on the internet. which doesn't discredit words on the internet, it discredits cowards who hide behind them.

the solution to all of these things is to be *real* people. have *real* relationships. and you cannot have those without the courage to be honestly your full self.

if your scared to post an opinion, or have your name associated with an opinion, that should be a moment to sit down and self reflect ... why? what about this opinion, or the facts that surround it, or what part of myself is making me feel afraid? you should have answer pretty quickly when you examine that emotion.

ive never made an enemy on the internet i regretted sticking to the facts as i can demonstrate to myself and beliefs i hold because of them.

[flyweightnate]

we dont really have political differences anymore. we have moral ones.

...

This mindset is part of the problem.

Jon Haidt did a great thing for society in "The Righteous Mind" by explaining it's not differences in morals (usually), it's differences in priorities, or methods. Most good humans want similar outcomes; we disagree on paths and speeds to get there.

Unfortunately, people don't tend to view it that way.

A wild study showed that people with an IQ less than 100 have remarkable challenges with recounting an event from another's perspective (as though writing a novel in first person). Under 80, they can't even imagine their own life if any past event were hypothetically different (e.g., "How would you feel if you skipped breakfast today?" "But I didn't skip breakfast."). So half the country (anyone with an IQ below 100) will have trouble sympathizing, and around 15% can't even imagine changing their mind, in essence.

I got in a debate with a casual friend over politics; we agree on what is good and what is bad, but rank things in different priorities. We're both nerds. We're both analytical. We're both smart enough to separate emotion from opinion... or so I thought. He's avoided talking to me when we see each other (albeit briefly) since, and I can't help but wonder if he's offended that my priorities didn't match his priorities. Or maybe he's just busy.

Online, where there's rarely a second chance for a nuanced followup, reading body language, an apology if warranted? Nah, I'm cool with thinking you're all grownups and have legitimate reasons for your views, and not being divided over them. I have super strong opinions on the directions things went/ are going, partially because of my specific experiences both home and abroad, but I can't imagine to know everything. Nor can I presume to understand your perspective fully. As though it mattered, I'm another vote for leaving MCB (and The Whiteboard, since I know Doc has promised as much) politics-free.

[cockerpunk]

This mindset is part of the problem.

Jon Haidt did a great thing for society in "The Righteous Mind" by explaining it's not differences in morals (usually), it's differences in priorities, or methods. Most good humans want similar outcomes; we disagree on paths and speeds to get there.

Unfortunately, people don't tend to view it that way.

A wild study showed that people with an IQ less than 100 have remarkable challenges with recounting an event from another's perspective (as though writing a novel in first person). Under 80, they can't even imagine their own life if any past event were hypothetically different (e.g., "How would you feel if you skipped breakfast today?" "But I didn't skip breakfast."). So half the country (anyone with an IQ below 100) will have trouble sympathizing, and around 15% can't even imagine changing their mind, in essence.

I got in a debate with a casual friend over politics; we agree on what is good and what is bad, but rank things in different priorities. We're both nerds. We're both analytical. We're both smart enough to separate emotion from opinion... or so I thought. He's avoided talking to me when we see each other (albeit briefly) since, and I can't help but wonder if he's offended that my priorities didn't match his priorities. Or maybe he's just busy.

Online, where there's rarely a second chance for a nuanced followup, reading body language, an apology if warranted? Nah, I'm cool with thinking you're all grownups and have legitimate reasons for your views, and not being divided over them. I have super strong opinions on the directions things went/ are going, partially because of my specific experiences both home and abroad, but I can't imagine to know everything. Nor can I presume to understand your perspective fully. As though it mattered, I'm another vote for leaving MCB (and The Whiteboard, since I know Doc has promised as much) politics-free.

no, its a difference in morals. i can easily rattle off a dozen political topics to prove the point, but that would take the thread into the political we are so much trying to avoid. i already provided an example with healthcare.

and at the core of all those moral differences is the question "was the enlightenment a good idea or not?"

you can generally predict someone's morals and politics based on how they answer that question.

also IQ has been scientifically debunked. sorry.

EDIT: let me put it to you this way, what you prioritize, is based on what you value. and what you value, is based on your morality. so its just morality at the end of the day.

i usually see this kind of thing when people want to find common ground between each other by rejecting the question "is this person a good person" by reassuring yourself that indeed everyone is, somewhere, deep down inside a good person. but reality is quite the opposite. there are lots of not good people. and you shouldnt have common ground with them. i would like to have as little common ground with heinrich himmler as possible for example, becasue he was a bad person, with bad morals, and bad priorities.

[martix_agent]

plus, only cowards can't stand up for themselves with there full selves. cowards hide behind systems, processes, and screen names. cowards hide behind words on the internet. which doesn't discredit words on the internet, it discredits cowards who hide behind them.

the solution to all of these things is to be *real* people. have *real* relationships. and you cannot have those without the courage to be honestly your full self.

A person who choses not to reveal themself on the internet is not inherently a coward. Acting like a fool when anonymous does make you a coward, though... or a troll.


I think I do agree with you about the morality bit. It seems like it's kinda boiling down to that for a large handful of things. Maybe a better way of saying that is that it's the perception of morality. I'm not convinced a lot of US politicians are actually moral people once you reach about the state level.

[bored383]

morals are historically used to justify atrocities, especially when crusading do-gooders use them as an excuse to impose their will upon others

[Carp]

[bored383]

I didn't vote for you!

[Magmoormaster]

This mindset is part of the problem.

Jon Haidt did a great thing for society in "The Righteous Mind" by explaining it's not differences in morals (usually), it's differences in priorities, or methods. Most good humans want similar outcomes; we disagree on paths and speeds to get there.

It used to be that way, I don't think it is anymore. It seems very clear that the two major parties have very different outcomes in terms of equality, inclusivity, opportunity, etc. If it were just, we want the same thing but we have differetn opinions on how to get there, we wouldn't be nearly as divided as we are. I can have, and have had, great conversations and debates with people who do want similar things. But the two major parties don't see reality the same way anymore. I can't have a conversation with someone who refuses to acknowledge the same facts.

I won't say more, I've probably flirted with the line enough as it is.

[Grendel]

Yup, page 2 has been flirting the edge primarily