Let’s talk regulators

[Boddah2]

Do older guns really need regs? Can any electros run without one? Back in the day co2 and and expansion chamber was all you needed!


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[Jordan]

You'll need to define a few things first... do you consider blowbacks with e-grips to be electronic guns?

Some guns DO require regulation because of their design, even older ones. Do you have specific examples in mind? I can think of at least a few pre-electro era guns that require a reg to operate - Automags, Novas come to mind.

[Fubarius]

CO2 sort of self regulated. From a full tank to nearly empty it would output roughly the same pressure, 800 psi give or take a bit on a warm day. So any gun that can happily run on 800 psi will run on unregulated CO2.

Unfortunately that pressure would change with the temperature of the tank, and rapid use would chill the tank, dropping the pressure. Hence people started to design guns to run at a bit lower pressure, and the addition of regulators to keep that pressure down there even on a crazy hot day. I've even ran a number of electros successfully on CO2, generally with an anti-syphon in the tank and TWO regs.

With HPA in our case we will ALWAYS have a reg, on the tank. Tank if filled to 4500 psi and it goes down as it's used, reg on tank drops it down to a constant pressure in a more usable range. Now if the output of the tank's reg is a pressure the gun can operate at, then the main purpose of a second reg between the HPA system and the gun's valve is for velocity control. If you have some other way of adjusting velocity, and the output of the tank is at the gun's operating pressure, you could in theory run the gun with out a regulator on it.

[Chappy]

In the early nineties, with the old blowbacks and co2, we had to rely on Warren G and Nate Dog.

[Mr. Hick]

.....Mount up!

[Hp_lovecraft]

The short answer- no, of course not. I've been playing for 35ish years, and have never owned anything that needs a regulator, and I've played at every level, from stock, to scenerio, up to tournaments.

But like anything, your equipment and style of play dictate everything. The great advantage of co2 is it is self-regulating. It will stay around 800psi from a full tank, to a nearly empty tank.
If you do not fire too fast, then the pressure will happily float around that 800psi number. However, once you start to hammer on the paint, the tank itself will chill, and it will drop the pressure briefly.

For guns that are pressure sensitive, this can cause problems, but this is greatly reduced using expansion chambers and/or remotes.

But the real issue is with the liquid co2 itself. Since co2 is self regulating, if liquid co2 gets past the regulator into the gun itself, it will boil of until it reaches 800psi (or higher). THis can cause dangerous spikes in FPS, and blow pneumatic lines, and damage solenoids.

[Cunha]

Regarding the question about electros unregged - the valve design is going to dictate the pressure the gun needs to operate at. If it needs to operate at a pressure other than 800psi or so, its going to need a regulator whether c02 is involved or not.

[Roger7pball]

I disagree but maybe I’m wrong. The solenoid is the sensitive part of an electro. If no HPR is used the LPR stands no chance of lowering the pressure to something the solenoid can handle.

[JeeperCreeper]

There many factors to this. Yes alot of solenoids are meant to operate at certain pressures but there's also the internal air lines that might not hold up to 800psi, because the marker is meant to operate within a much lower threshold. Most of the time, if it has a regulator, it's for a specific reason.

[Jordan]

I disagree but maybe I’m wrong. The solenoid is the sensitive part of an electro. If no HPR is used the LPR stands no chance of lowering the pressure to something the solenoid can handle.

Isn't that literally what the LPR is for? Maybe I'm not understanding your post.

I know some LPRs are sensitive to input pressure, but not all... I had a Stab fail on my Angel LED and it still shot great, just at 500FPS.

[CrowsFeast]

Just because it's Canada let's make that 495 fps

[Roger7pball]

Isn't that literally what the LPR is for? Maybe I'm not understanding your post.

I know some LPRs are sensitive to input pressure, but not all... I had a Stab fail on my Angel LED and it still shot great, just at 500FPS.

On the Angel for example the LPR is used to knocking 350-400 psi down to 80-90 psi. Introducing 800 psi to the LPR will result in a higher pressure observed by the solenoid.

I don’t know the pressure limits of the SMC solenoids but I’m guessing if the LPR outputs enough psi that the solenoid would eventually give up on life.

edit...just looked at smcpneumatics spec sheet and I believe they’re rated to 0.7 MPa or 102 psi.

[Jordan]

On the Angel for example the LPR is used to knocking 350-400 psi down to 80-90 psi. Introducing 800 psi to the LPR will result in a higher pressure observed by the solenoid.

I don’t know the pressure limits of the SMC solenoids but I’m guessing if the LPR outputs enough psi that the solenoid would eventually give up on life.

edit...just looked at smcpneumatics spec sheet and I believe they’re rated to 0.7 MPa or 102 psi.

Ok... I see what you mean. I thought you were saying the solenoid would be seeing bottle pressure, not a somewhat elevated LPR output.

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[MAr]

.

[lew]

They'll make ya famous!

[Cunha]

All valves including solenoid valves are designed for a specific pressure. If that pressure isn't 800 PSI then c02 isn't going to work.

You could have an electro where you have 800psi c02 into the valve and the LPR, and the LPR sends 80 PSI to the valve. In this case I think the LPR would be a low pressure palmer stabilizer to handle the high input.

So anyways, its all possible, but the guns that have regs need em, 100%. This would include an adjustable output pressure HPA tank that can bring the pressure down to the valve operating pressure, or whatever.