My Basement is Cold

[THE_Incredible_Hulk]

Hi, I saw the other thread about cold basement and didn't want to clutter it. My home office is in the basement and I work from home a lot. And well that pc is also my gaming rig. I got a kit to put over the window and will do that tonight. I was looking at an electric wall heater. I believe electric would be easier to install than gas. This part of the basement is finished. This is the one I'm considering. I'd have it ran on 120. Would it need to be on it's own circuit? There is gas pipes in the next room over but with this part of the basement being finished, how hard would it be to install a gas heater? I'd have a pro do this either electrical or gas.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Cadet-EnergyPlus-1600-Watt-120-240-Volt-In-Wall-Electric-Wall-Heater-in-White-CEC163TW/206750445

Thanks,
Jim

[Tarsun2]

The electric baseboards we have in our house run 220v and they are on their own circuit.
the smaller wall heater might not need that setup.
we have a small-ish (2ft x 2ft x 2ft cube) IR heater that is quite nice. its a "soft heat" and gently keeps the room warm. has a remote and a bunch of modes/settings.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/redstone-1-500w-portable-electric-infrared-heater-with-cabinet-gd9315bcw-5ja

the ductless propane heaters would probably require a permit/inspection and they tend to produce a good amount of moisture. (which can be a good thing since the humidity drops in the winter)

[Grendel]

This is all dependent upon the natural temperature of your area in degrees Fahrenheit and volume of the Room you wish to heat that is reasonably well sealed and insulated. Take your room dimensions Length x Width x Height = Room size in CUFT then multiply this result by the number of degrees you want to raise the rooms temperature and then convert to BTU by multiplying by 0.133 this will give you the BTUs needed. So say you have a 10ft x 15ft x 7ft room in your basement that unheated is at 55 degrees F and you want your room to be warmed up to 70 degrees F.

10ft x15ft x 7ft = 1050 cuft x (desired 70F- existing 55F) x 0.133 = 2094.75 BTU

Your heater is 1000 watt on 120VAC 1000W = ~3400 BTU/hr

[THE_Incredible_Hulk]

I read this a few times and each time Professor Grendel, it made my head hurt. Doing the math, to raise the basement 15 degrees: 4610 BTU. For 10 degrees: 3100 BTU. Considering I have been layering up I am comfortable with 65 degrees. And yes, this means you were spot on existing 55 degrees. If the heater is ran at 1600 Watts 240 VAC, that would be 5460 BTU. That'd be enough for 10 or 15 degrees with change. Do you think it'd be better to go gas or electric?

[Grendel]

Gas or Electric really depends on your utility cost in your area. If you have natural gas available I would go natural gas over electric but if you need propane then I'd do electric over propane. Both Gas and Propane have a little more cost for install but a wash between themselves but propane typically is more expensive then natural gas and then you have the tank issue if you do not have one already. Simplest IMHO is electric and electric heat is very efficient but tends to be the most expensive per BTU. NG or Propane you are dealing with fire and exhaust gases which also adds to the cost/worry factor. If you had solar I would go all electric to make the most use of that energy source but you did not mention that.

1600 Watts on 240VAC definitely gives you some extra "horsepower" which means you will heat up quicker and if thermostatically controlled the unit will be on for a shorter periods of time. Given other typical losses in a basement environment I would say if you need 4600 BTU and you have 5500 available from you heater you will be pretty well set. I would shoot for 500-1000 extra BTUs in heating if it was for me.

Use a programable thermostat and program it with set back (lower temp setting when not occupied) based on when you use the room but have a manual override so you have controlled heat when you occupy outside normal times.

in a past life I ran a controls department for a energy management company, I picked up a lot about mechanical systems design back then.

[Siress]

Assuming you're in the US - I'm pretty sure that per the national electric code, you'll need to add a circuit just for the electric heating of this room.

The room size determines the total wattage [W] heater(s) you need; more on this later. The voltage [V] of the heater, combined with known W, determines the current [A] capacity the new circuit requires by the relationship: A = W / V. The current capacity determines the wire gauge and circuit breaker size needed; both of which are more expensive as A increases. To reduce your cost significantly, use the highest voltage circuit available to you to reduce your required current capacity. For most homes, this is typically 240V. The drawback to higher voltage is safety related, as it has greater potential to flashover and cause harm. However, the flashover distance change is honestly negligible; rule of thumb is ~1kV for the first milimeter of flashover in humid air, so the difference between 120V and 240V is << .04". Once it has made a harmful connection, however, it can do a lot more harm than 120V... both can be fatal. If you can get it, an AFCI breaker for the heating circuit would substantially reduce risk of harm. GFCI is ok but not necessary, even in the basement, if I recall the NEC correctly.

As far as choosing the wattage, I followed the 10W/sq-ft rule of thumb and got nearly the same result as my electrician that followed the (pay walled) standard for heating calculations. My room had some oddities, such as a stairwell, small window, combination of above and below ground walls... Since the heaters are typically incremented in 500W increments, and my math was off by <100W , I think it's safe to use that rule of thumb, add 100W, and round up to the next available wattage. When in doubt, add more wattage. AFAIK there's no limit to how high you can go; only how low.

Personally, I like the quiet of baseboard heaters over units that have a blower motor. The Cadet SoftHeat units have been great in the kids playroom. They heat quietly, quickly, and are cool enough that the kiddo doesn't get harmed from touching it - but has enough heat to train him to keep his distance.

[THE_Incredible_Hulk]

I am in the USA.

[Flounder]

overclock your gaming rig to generate more heat. Add a few mining rigs to put additional heat in the room and use the income generated to help pay for the electricity.

[Butch3r]

When I was a kid my Dad went around our house in the summer and dug down IIRC 2 feet and went out 2 feet, he lined rigid insulation down the outside of the foundation wall the 2 feet then went out the bottom 2 feet away from the house making an L shape of rigid insulation before he buried it back up. It makes a huge difference in keeping the cold out of the basement and will save you a lot on your heating bill. when installing rigid insulation you should always seal it to the wall around the edges or tape the seams between the rigid insulation to keep the frost from creeping around. Now that I'm a homeowner myself I've been spending time around the house adding in insulation and making the place more efficient, no use spending money on a heater if the house wont hold the heat.

[flyweightnate]

Yeah, it's good form - moves the frost line up, by letting the house heat more of its own foundation, and prevents heaves. Your dad knew a thing or two, for sure!

[Siress]

When I was a kid my Dad went around our house in the summer and dug down IIRC 2 feet and went out 2 feet, he lined rigid insulation down the outside of the foundation wall the 2 feet then went out the bottom 2 feet away from the house making an L shape of rigid insulation before he buried it back up. It makes a huge difference in keeping the cold out of the basement and will save you a lot on your heating bill. when installing rigid insulation you should always seal it to the wall around the edges or tape the seams between the rigid insulation to keep the frost from creeping around. Now that I'm a homeowner myself I've been spending time around the house adding in insulation and making the place more efficient, no use spending money on a heater if the house wont hold the heat.

I found this fascinating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNJ6HcANWxw

[THE_Incredible_Hulk]

I like that idea. I wonder how much it will cost?

[Butch3r]

I found this fascinating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNJ6HcANWxw

Biggest difference between that video and what my dad did was that they are going 5.5 feet deep because they had issues going 8-9 feet deep (to get below the frost line you normally need close to 9 feet cover) while my old man only went down 2 feet and out so he could have a shallower hole and by going out the frost would have to go deeper than the rigid insulation than creep back that 2 feet towards the house which it wont. they are also using spray foam to insulate and seal the rigid insulation to the house which is a good option, if you don't seal the rigid insulation up the cold/frost will just creep around it and your rigid insulation wont be effective. This is a solid upgrade to any older house, will keep your basement toasty in the winter and nice and cool in the summer.

[flyweightnate]

There was an article in Fine Homebuilding about this exact concept last month. I take it your dad knew a thing or two about a thing or two.

[Butch3r]

My dad was always a jack of all trades, no former education beyond high school but he knows his way around things plus he is always looking to do things on a budget and to reduce his cost of living. If their was something he was unsure about he always knew someone he could ask and expand his knowledge but typically these days its people that come to him for suggestions.

[boarder2k7]

overclock your gaming rig to generate more heat. Add a few mining rigs to put additional heat in the room and use the income generated to help pay for the electricity.

I mean honestly if you're going to heat with resistive electrical and you're not running fold@home or a miner, you're doing it wrong.

[THE_Incredible_Hulk]

I appreciate everybody's reply; including Flounder's. I've learned a lot about wall heaters today. Thank you all.

[Flounder]

I was kidding about the mining rig but apparently it really is a thing

https://www.coindesk.com/mining-bitcoin-heat-strawberries-chickens

[Seajay]

overclock your gaming rig to generate more heat. Add a few mining rigs to put additional heat in the room and use the income generated to help pay for the electricity.

This would work perfectly... if you could actually buy anything at this point.

[Mr. Hick]

Not to derail the whole electric wall heater thing but....

Have you considered a small propane heater? I don't know the situation of your location but here in the whiter and colder part of the north east a little buddy heater with a 20lb tank makes for quite the inexpensive basement heating solution.

In my personal experience any space heater running on 120v can't produce enough heat to fully overcome basement level of cold. I understand the desire to have a heater that is set and forget but a small 5k btu (or 30) propane heater will rapidly warm the area if you just let it run for 20 minutes before you use the space.