Money, Crypto, I dunno

[Bang*Bang**]

Howdy friends,

It's been a while, but I'm minimizing my social media presence and getting back to my good 'ol MCB roots.

Lurking through the old posts on here, looks like some jumped into some of the bullish trends since the 2020's.

Some probably jumped on the bullshit trends from back then too.

I'm curious if anyone has any lessons learned?

I've got some money sitting and doing nothing, which half of me thinks I should just pump into debts to offset interest, but it's not enough to wipe anything out, just enough to offset 1 year worth of minimum payments.

However, the other half of me wants to dance with the Devil by the pale moon light and gamble on crypto.

Yes, I am aware crypto is volatile AF. Yes, there seems to be nearly as many pump and dump crypto schemes as crypto currencies. No, I don't even know where to start with crypto trading and wallets... and yet, my optimist inner Romeo Montague is drawn to that Crypto Capulet like a siren song, as though the potential in the market itself is contemplating my name aloud from it'd balcony window.

It has me wondering,
"O Dinero, Dinero, wherefore art thou Dinero?..."

Or, in other words. What's been productive for you folks? What do people use to buy/sell Crypto? Doesn't have to be Crypto, I'm just pulled here because of it... and I've got a social media addiction to offset. So, yeah. Feel free to nerd out.

[Grendel]

I learned my lesson years ago (Friday 13 Oct 1989) when in addition to investing in mutuals I dabbled in bond trading. I got cocky and had bought some bonds on margin right before Black Friday and my chits got called in on that Monday. It cost me everything I had profited to that date plus another ~$10k which I had to take a loan to pay. Lesson learned if you do not have money to throw away and still survive do not play the market as an individual. From then on I have played the averages in investing staying away from the more speculative investments and shifting everything I can into investments that have hard assets (land). Getting close to retiring from working for someone else and while I will never have enough (in my mind) my wife and I should be good for what remains of our life, if not rich at least able to self sustain without anything from the government.

[Hellion360]

How much money sitting?
What percent interest are your debts?

[Bang*Bang**]

I'll dm.

[TwonTamal]

Highly dependent on your situation. There is peace of mind that comes with being ahead a couple of months on all your payments. Of course, if you are going to wipe out some of your debt with it, it should be the one with the highest interest rate first. With any investment, you should only invest with money that you are willing to lose and your optimal timeline for holding should be forever. Also investing, in my opinion, at least if you are going to be successful at it, requires A LOT of research. If you don't have the time to commit to extensive amounts of research, then a simple S&P500 ETF or Dividend Growth ETF may be ideal. I'm not saying it is right for your situation, and you are the only one able to judge your appetite for risk, but if you do dabble in crypto, the majority of them are shitcoins. Some may disagree with me, but the only one worthy of investment and has value is Bitcoin in my opinion, but what do I know?

All opinion, not investment advice.

[devilzcall]

Unless you only have a handful very specific credits, Interest on your debt will almost certainly be higher than what you could reasonably and reliably expect from an investment.

The vile thing about minimum payments is, that you are paying off barely more than the accrued interest. So your debt doesn't really go down and the CC company can make a lot of money off your back. The best move is to aggressively put money into your highest interest loans/credits, that'll snowball into less interest due and a chance to pay off the remaining debt faster.

Also, opinion on Crypto: The markets spiked because they're expecting trump to pass crypto friendly legislature (or rather abstain from regulation) but I only expect that to lead to more fuckery and exploitation, not in the everymans favor.

[Grendel]

You are so right, I have had people argue with me about paying off debt vs. investing the money. I am a firm believer paying off debt is like guaranteed interest from an investment (investing in yourself). Sure sometimes investment interest can be greater then debt avoidance interest but the debt is a known guarenteed value. Investments is a gamble.

[Bang*Bang**]

This is along the lines I've been thinking. It's a-moral AF, but if crypto gets legitimized and the hounds are released without regulation, I'm thinking it's pump and dump city all over again... like the earlier 2017's, or dot com in the 90's.

Ugh, I feel dirty thinking about it, but I have to admit there could be money there.

[devilzcall]

I was trying to say the opposite. Yes, Crypto Bros are happy right now, but you will almost certainly be left holding the bag if you try to game their system.

[ford]

I'm in the camp that would suggest aggressively going after your debt. Especially if the interest is over 5%.

I have something like 0.03% of my net worth in crypto. Just enough to see how bizarre coin price fluctuations are between Bitcoin, Solana and Ethereum.

For a plethora of reasons I would not put any serious money in it and instead focus on boring, proven investment strategies.

[flyweightnate]

I invest in three ways, none of them crypto.

I don't do crypto because I don't understand it in detail. I know why it's considered a "hard" asset, I know how it works, but I don't know what contributes to gains and losses so I'll sit out.

I have traditional retirement accounts/ ETFs/ stocks. They're ok, and I lean towards value funds. Decent returns over time with some really bad years mixed in. I have 30 years until retirement so I'm not worried.

I have real estate, a single small house in an urban area that we kept when we moved. Tons more work than it's worth for the "profit" (equity) we gain each year, but if the property values take off again, we're here for it. Cash flow is pretty neutral.

The third is under-appreciated. I invest in skills and trades. I took courses on EDX that got me halfway to my MBA, then finished the MBA online at a reputable school, maximizing company reimbursements by spreading it over a few years. I learned CAD/CAM both professionally and personally. I learned the basics of accounting, marketing, supply chain, etc. I spent a ton of time building "sweat equity" in each house, my residence and my rental, and got good at everything but texturing drywall. I probably average 3-5 hours a week on skills building in some way, outside of my day job. This is incredible for cost avoidance. It also has given me a really marketable skillset for my career (all the school and independent learning) and opened up several alternative routes if the economy somehow no longer needs engineers (I've never seen AI lay stone block or install a tankless heater).

While financial investing has a lot of potential, I think people are duped into getting over their skis against literal experts because it all looks so accessible and simple. Investing in skills is a unique hedge against unexpected expenses (broken car, broken house) and against economic shocks (people will still have physical assets to maintain), so I think I've made more from that angle than all my accounts combined.

[$L!mBo]

Bitcoin is the opportunity of our generation.

Outperforms every other asset consistently.

Only goes up over time.

Completely predictable 4 year cycle.

The banks own the most BTC in the country and now we have a Federal "Strategic Reserve"
Blackrock wants it so that by the time everyone needs Bitcoin, they will have to buy it from them.

The dollar loses power every day.

Anyone saying buying bitcoin is a scam is simply ignorant of what is going on.

$16k to $100k in two years.
It is never too late to start investing.
You are not going to get rich in 5minutes and you will drive yourself insane constantly checking your portfolio.
Dollar cost average in and HODL.
401k, Roth IRA, High Yield Savings accounts are all broken. The "tried and true" traditional methods of retirement and bank regulated interest will never again be what they used to. You are not getting the loans they would give you even 5 years ago. The bank wants you in debt for life, always trading in and worried about having a good credit score.

Its not paranoia, its not a bunch of buzzwords.
If you dont want to be working until you drop dead, educate yourself on investing and whats going on with Bitcoin.

[Carp]

Bitcoin is the opportunity of our generation.

Outperforms every other asset consistently.

Only goes up over time.

Completely predictable 4 year cycle.

The banks own the most BTC in the country and now we have a Federal "Strategic Reserve"
Blackrock wants it so that by the time everyone needs Bitcoin, they will have to buy it from them.

The dollar loses power every day.

Anyone saying buying bitcoin is a scam is simply ignorant of what is going on.

$16k to $100k in two years.
It is never too late to start investing.
You are not going to get rich in 5minutes and you will drive yourself insane constantly checking your portfolio.
Dollar cost average in and HODL.
401k, Roth IRA, High Yield Savings accounts are all broken. The "tried and true" traditional methods of retirement and bank regulated interest will never again be what they used to. You are not getting the loans they would give you even 5 years ago. The bank wants you in debt for life, always trading in and worried about having a good credit score.

Its not paranoia, its not a bunch of buzzwords.
If you dont want to be working until you drop dead, educate yourself on investing and whats going on with Bitcoin.

That be your own discretion..


...Bitcoins will be totally worthless without electricity...🤔

[$L!mBo]

i dont think thats a realistic concern in the context of this conversation.

but just to humor that argument, i was sure to include the term "investing" as well.

if we are talking "Whats the best financial investment strategy if electricity doesnt exist?",
i think we would have far more important problems to worry about.

[Carp]

[BTV]...I thought that's ...what, was the conversation... about! ... Realistic, real world investments and problems! I live in the now!...you? ... it's kind of hard, to plan for the future, with the b******* going on... these days ...WTF!...[/Benicio del Toro voice] ...🤣

[Carp]

Just saying...😉...🤫

[$L!mBo]

Its just common sense that an asset with a history of overall positive growth is only going to keep going up. The 4 year cycle has been proven for 14 years.
The adoption of bitcoin worldwide can not be ignored. Entire countries have switched over to BTC as their national currency.
Not planning for your future and saying "oh well no one knows whats gunna happen tomorrow!" is probably the best way to stay in your current financial situation forever. Is that what you want?
Personally, I want to take advantage of what is , arguably, the opportunity of our lifetimes.
Lets say youve been working and contributing to a retirement fund for the last 10 years.
Do you still want to be working in 60?
What if you took that money, invested in Bitcoin, and had 60 years worth of money in 2 years?
Thats what happened for a lot of folks who bought 3 years ago.
If you just want to be a hater/contrarian/ "im perfectly happy ignoring all the hustle and bustle of the world",
thats fine with me.
I want to break out of this rat race and bring as many of my friends with me. I want to have something to help my family and loved ones.
Rolling over and pretending like it doesnt bother you is what the powers that be are betting on. Line their pockets or line your own.

Just saying.....

[ford]

Its just common sense that an asset with a history of overall positive growth is only going to keep going up. The 4 year cycle has been proven for 14 years.

My guy, 14 years is not much of a window to test something's staying power. Especially if the thesis is "will always go up"

The adoption of bitcoin worldwide can not be ignored. Entire countries have switched over to BTC as their national currency.

How many transactions can BTC process in a minute? How about Solana? If any serious reason existed to move over to a crypto/block chain based exchange for day to day commerce BTC would be toast.

What if you took that money, invested in Bitcoin, and had 60 years worth of money in 2 years? Thats what happened for a lot of folks who bought 3 years ago.

Past performance does not guarantee future returns. I can agree to some degree BTC is our generation's California gold rush, but for every person striking it big, how many are scammed, rugged or otherwise taken?

I want to break out of this rat race and bring as many of my friends with me. I want to have something to help my family and loved ones.

I don't think anyone will disagree with your mantra here. My strategy is broad diversification. Even Blackrock which has their own Crypto ETFs aren't suggesting more than 2% of your portfolio be tied to crypto.

Could you commerce with crypto? Sure. If anyone ever needs to do so though they'll likely invent a way to do it which isn't as resource intensive, crime friendly and easier to regulate... Oh wait, we already have that don't we?

[$L!mBo]

With what, the dollar? That the head criminals in charge print more of whenever they feel like it? The whole point of a decentralized currency like crypto is freedom from regulation. "Not as resource intensive"? guess you love paying taxes.
And groceries you cant afford. and your children not being able to afford a house.