Intel stepped on their own d...

[DavidBoren]

You know when you flinch for someone else? Like you just know that it had to hurt so badly, that you react to their pain?

That's how the latest news from Intel looks for me.

I am just recently getting into this whole computer scene, and I am just wondering what sort of ripples this is really going to have.

Intel delayed their new chipset technology for a year... which is a long time in this industry. Plus, their competitors are already using the very technology that Intel just delayed.

Meanwhile, AMD is gaining popularity in data centers, a market Intel once had a chokehold on. AMD is also going to be launching their new chipset tech before Intel catches up with this current generation.

Nvidia looks like a strong candidate to buy ARM, which would allow Nvidia to produce their own CPU's, thus competing directly with Intel... the very same Intel that used to rely on Nvidia for their PC and gaming audience.

The very same Intel that is up to its neck in its own $#!+, right meow. Like people are losing their jobs.

I don't know how often this crap happens, or what sort of long-term repercussions come from such a $#!+-show.

What's going on? What's this all mean? Is there more to this that I'm clearly missing?

[Siress]

Don't forget that Apple announced a little while ago (clearly already in the know about the news we just rec'd) they are abandoning Intel chips for ARM based systems.

Intel has been coasting on their laurels for at least 5 years, probably more. We'll see if they step back up and become competitive again, or if they pull a Sears. I'd be amazed if they go gently into that good night, though. I expect they'll demonstrate some unfathomable bad behavior before they let that happen.

[DavidBoren]

They [Intel] have demonstrated a willingness to play dirty before.

They can hide a lot of shady $#!+ in a upper management shift, as well as simultaneously outsourcing production... who knows what sort of shenanigans they will be up to trying to stay competitive.

They still have a near-monopoly on data center... at least until AMD servers start popping up next year with tech two generations ahead of Intel's servers.

Apple was a major contender for buying ARM, but they didn't want to deal with regulatory conflicts of interest. Apple is, however, still switching to ARM architecture (as you said).

Which is fantastic news for Nvidia... they [Nvidia] are JUST niche enough to settle any conflicts of interest with royalty contracts or other business partnership avenues. And they are in a good position to benefit from a strong partnership with Apple through ownership of ARM.

Nothing stops Nvidia from maintaining their current relationship with Intel. They can still do everything they already do together. However, if Nvidia buys ARM, nobody will blame them for leaving with the rats and ditching Intel entirely... we can all recognize a ship that is sinking.

[Siress]

These moves have all the tell-tale signs of a giant [Intel] about to be slain for becoming fat and lethargic. If I held any Intel stock I'd dump it immediately. The only way they can recover from this in a timely fashion is to pull off some amazingly dirty deals. Nvidia has dominated in the GPU space since forever, with AMD as their only serious competitor. Intel has dominated in the CPU space since forever to 2017 (with very brief dips), with AMD as their only serious competitor; ARM is really just stepping up to the plate for the first time. If Nvidia buys ARM, they'll have a foot in both spaces, just like AMD. With Apple backing ARM development, it'll become competitive eventually; though I suspect that's at least 2 years out no matter what you read because there's some technical stuff that just doesn't make sense, and they've not contacted the groups necessary to bridge the gaps (e.g. ThunderBolt [i.e. PCIe over USB-C])

[DavidBoren]

But this Intel situation is a d@mn good reason for Apple to start making those necessary moves. Apple has to see this as an opportunity, right? How stubborn would they have to be to not make the necessary moves to further edge Intel out of the market?

[Siress]

But this Intel situation is a d@mn good reason for Apple to start making those necessary moves. Apple has to see this as an opportunity, right? How stubborn would they have to be to not make the necessary moves to further edge Intel out of the market?

Not really. Apple users don't seem to give a damn about hardware performance. They've been selling sub-par hardware since forever. Their shtick is that they keep a choke hold on the user experience so everyone knows what to expect and has the same experience. I'd bet that's the only thing driving this move. ARM certainly isn't the performance option... they're barely even relevant to modern CPUs in the full-fledged computer space. I think ARM is known for mobile and low-power applications.

[DavidBoren]

I did read somewhere that Nvidia was looking at buying ARM to get into the mobile market.

I don't expect Nvidia to become a CPU powerhouse with their purchase of ARM. I am just excited that they are making moves. I like a good underdog story.

And, honestly, I would much rather see an arms race between Nvidia/ARM and AMD... that sounds exciting. And everyone wins.

Except Intel. Lol.

[Siress]

Exactly. And you best believe Nvidia will do amazing things when they step into the high-efficiency CPU ring. If this goes down, mark my words and remind us in 2 years: We'll have phones that output video at 4k 120Hz and can game reasonably well at 2k 60Hz all over mDP or TB3. Ah... That's why Apple isn't worried... They know that if Nvidia buy ARM then they'll have to solve the TB3 problem themselves to get into the pocket PC market. Clever Apple...

[Falcon16]

Apple's machines are overpriced POS. They sell tech that is at least 2-3 generations behind for a premium, their main thing being the OS is rock solid. Frankly I can see why the hackintosh scene is big Honestly though buying Apple is overpowering for outdated tech when for the same money I can get 10th gen Intel or 4xxx series Ryzen on the laptop side with a 2060 or sometimes 2080 mobile card. Given the same budget PC wins out on sheer value alone.

[Seajay]

I agree that Nvidia will thrive in the mobile market with ARM, they've been in the space for a while now but only limited. Nvidia is also NOT a gaming graphics company, although that is highly perceived. They have incredible hardware in the compute arenas and parallel computing workspace. They already have the Tegra chips for some mobile offers like the Shield, which works really well.

[gabe]

All I know is I'm a very happy AMD shareholder right now. 20% gains in the last 4 days feel pretty good.

In all seriousness though, the writing was on the wall. Intel has been pumping out new chips that are only very slight improvements on the last series and they really peaked at the I7-8700k that has been out for about a year and a half now. Reminds me of Nvidia too with their market saturation of a GPU with slightly better specs for every $50 in price point. They peaked at the GTX-1080ti and everyone knows it. Now they use the same dies, add on a handful of cores that are RT specific, call it a new board, and then just lock out a handful of cores to make the lower end chips in their line. AMD is coming with smaller switch tech, new GPU's, new CPU's and with great leadership and everyone can see it. I'm an Nvidia/Intel fanboi and my PC's have always had their chips but when it comes to investing in a company with growth potential, AMD is the one to bet on.

[MrKittyCatMeowFace]

20% gains!

Should change your avatar to smug wojack. XD

[gabe]

Lol smug wojack. Smug wojack mask on crying wojack is more accurate. The rest of the portfolio is not exactly performing quite as well.

[DavidBoren]

I have always believed that AMD is doing just fine. They were smart from the start, not locking everything behind license agreements (like Nvidia has). And recently, AMD has reliably advanced their tech past their competitors [Intel's]. If I was a betting man, I would put my stock in AMD, as well. But AMD is stable... definitely not stagnant... just stable. Predictable and boring. I love AMD, don't get me wrong, I'm just not enthused by them.

This proposed Nvidia/ARM merger is exciting. It has the chance to greatly broaden both companies portfolios. Both companies are in a position to step into new markets. Expansion. Trying new things. Step up production of their own in-house CPU's. They don't have to be a powerhouse overnight. Just keep going in the right direction. Follow in AMD's footsteps.

I am a big fan of hybrids, in general. And, as previously stated, I like a good underdog story. Something about watching the giant [Intel] stumble brings me a sick sense of satisfaction.

I picked a wonderful time to get into the PC scene. Lol.

[Siress]

You mean 14nm+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[DavidBoren]

In other news, Intel released their 11th gen CPU, still based on 10nm stone-age tech, still sporting half the cores of the comparable AMD chip.

AND, apparently there is turmoil between ARM/UK and ARM/China. Interesting development in the whole process of Nvidia acquiring ARM. Something to watch, at least.

Apparently ARM/China is in deep with Huawei... which is smack-dab in the center of a bunch of international political bull$#!+, right meow.

[punkncat]

Any of you that think Intel is going anywhere need to pinch yourself...dreaming.

Probably should take a look at some market share data. Even WITH AMD nibbling away at a small part of it, and even WITH Apple moving to other processors, at the end of the day it will hardly be a drop in Intel's bucket.

Something to pay attention to coming up. AMD is STILL just wringing better performance out of the same platform, albeit smaller. There are quite a few accounts of the 3xxx series chips degrading at a much faster rate than is common. Given the even further twist on the upcoming 4xxx I am going to take a wait and see and use my 2700X for a while....

[Falcon16]

It is getting to a point where the performance between generations is so small it's barely worth a mention. That said the hot chip right now is 3300x thing is besting an i7 7700k for $150 Canadian which is right around $100-110 USD

[gabe]

Both the next gen Xbox and the PS5 are using AMD chips. That should tell you something.

Not saying Intel or to a lesser extent Nvidia are going anywhere...but lost market share is lost market share. It's hard to gain that ground back unless they come out with something really exciting in the next year.

[DavidBoren]

The only thing Intel is introducing next year is what they should have released this year...

[fullofpaint]

Both the next gen Xbox and the PS5 are using AMD chips. That should tell you something.

Intel has never competed in the console space though, outside of the original Xbox which was pretty much just a regular pc.

[Seajay]

All I know is I'm a very happy AMD shareholder right now. 20% gains in the last 4 days feel pretty good.

Reminds me of Nvidia too with their market saturation of a GPU with slightly better specs for every $50 in price point. They peaked at the GTX-1080ti and everyone knows it. Now they use the same dies, add on a handful of cores that are RT specific, call it a new board, and then just lock out a handful of cores to make the lower end chips in their line. AMD is coming with smaller switch tech, new GPU's, new CPU's and with great leadership and everyone can see it. I'm an Nvidia/Intel fanboi and my PC's have always had their chips but when it comes to investing in a company with growth potential, AMD is the one to bet on.

It's a looooooong time coming!

For Nvidia though the die limitations is just part of efficient component use. It was really exciting when the GTX Titan and then GTX780 came out because these were full dies that didn't meet Tesla spec (gimped super cards). Since then they've kept up this model.
The RTX series as a whole was just a stepping stone into supporting Ray Tracing. The next 3 series and beyond will be where all the real excitement is.

[Siress]

I hope you're right about the 30 series, but I think we're another couple of iterations away form greatness. I find RTX 20series to be unacceptable for the price due to the performance issues. I suspect RTX 30series will move the needle to 'acceptable'.

[Falcon16]

RTX seems like nothing but a party trick at this point. The cards aren't generally capable of actually rendering RTX enabled content at playable framerate. I mean come on they RTX'd Quake 2 and the performance with RTX is so bad that it makes more sense to just play the original game and crank the settings to hell and get 1000FPS+ realistically anyone playing it online in any form of competitive nature would probably disable the RTX anyways.

For gaming i look at a 5500XT or a 1660TI or Super as the sweet spot.

[Siress]

It's more than a party trick. It's just not been successfully implemented for consumers.

[Seajay]

I hope you're right about the 30 series, but I think we're another couple of iterations away form greatness. I find RTX 20series to be unacceptable for the price due to the performance issues. I suspect RTX 30series will move the needle to 'acceptable'.

Yup, but remember programs are also growing in "RTX" use as well. Every new technology feature has been like this. New tech, a couple of games patch it in, some include some things while in development (which is usually Nvidia pushing the technology) then in 2 or 3 releases it's mainstream. Like with Stalker Call of Pripyat and Tessellation, we had to wait for a DX11 patch to get tessellation on scope rings.

Ultimately I think we are looking at more of the hardware doing compute magic to make things like RTX reflections and less specific engine development with static or coded interactions to make that visual. Smart graphics cards essentially.

In any case I'm hoping the 3000 series is the performance leap into acceptable, because I just spotted a GTX780 as a "minimum" hardware requirement on a game, which is bonkers given it's a gimped Tesla card!