Trackers Eventual build post

[Tracker]

okay, so its about time to update the ol' rig, the 7600k is starting to show its whiskers (4 cores is not enough anymore)

going to go more all out on this build

2 pieces are already here,
850 watt SFF power supply from EVGA
EVGA 3080 FTW3 ultra
new peices ordered
i7 12700KF
gigabyte aorus ultra
32gb (16x2) Gskill Z5 RGB PC6000


the plans for this build are

i9 12th gen (unless there is a really convincing argument for a i7)
32 gigs of DDR5 (most likely 2x16, but quad channel is fine)
A Z690 motherboard with enough freaking USB ports.. (the resurgence of the PS/2 port and 6x USB ports on new boards is driving me up a wall)
ill be moving over all my drives, 2x M.2 drives, one old 2.5 ssd and 2 platters (i might have to buy a new drive to merge the platters onto just for the sake of convenience at this point)

and all of this is going into a case smaller than my current one Corsair Carbide 500R (21x9.5x20) Length, Width, Height

current case choices are
Fractal designs Meshify 2c (16.7x8.75x18); biggest case of the three but somehow has space issues, have to be mindful of radiator and fan stack height, because the bottom part is probably a little too tall
Silverstone Fara R1 (15.4x8.15x17.6); really budget case, no rubber grommits in the passthroughs, a lot of painted threads... also front I/O ports are secured to the front panel, so you'll have to unscrew them from the back anytime you want to clean the non removable front screen for cleaning ...👎
Corsair iCUE 220T (15.5x8x18)really nice case, pretty much will cost you 2x to try and use standard hardware as opposed to corsair proprietary stuff that comes with, front mount AIO only, which gets in the way of gfx card..
Lian li 011 air mini (15.75x11.3x15.2), only case that is wider, but only dual chamber case that does ATX and tries to stay small.. i really like this design, and it will look cramped when im done, but this makes for a very pretty build because all you see is the mobo.. everything else is underneath

i would love to be able to build this with some RGB and be able to control all my lighting effects from one program, given that i use razer peripherals synapse would be my first choice as its got to be running for the mouse and the keyboard stuff, might as well let it handle everything,

i bring this up because thats the major caveat of that corsair, id be stuck using their iCUE lighting controller, but, being stuck with it would mean that i could do everything else in the case, but that leaves me with 2 peices of software arguing who about who gets to turn what led what color

[Tracker]

more rambling for the sake of anyone following along

looks like ill even have a viable micro-ATX motherboard as a possibility this time around (ASUS Z690-G), so that opens up a few build options, not many though, the mATX market has been limping along with very little support for longer than most people believed was possible, especially with the popularity of the new ITX spec and the case manufacture's support of it

looks like i'd be still deciding between meshify and corsair... again

meshify c mini, (15.5x8x15.5) 3 inches shorter than the 220t, but common build spec parts, older case design though, so not as many QOL improvements that are available with the 2 compact, that, it isnt THAT much smaller than
Corsair 280x (15.6x10.6x13.8) this is a "cube build" so the dimensions are odd this would be the easiest to build, because the design gets to make better use of the space for the parts

i am posting this in case anyone has any insights they would like to weigh in on.. (or suggestions for that matter) ill be using an AIO closed loop for the CPU, not because they are better, i just prefer they way they look, and ive used a H100i on my current build, that was cooling my old 3770k before i upgraded to the 7600k.. id say its due for an upgrade and retirement, maybe i should dissect it and record the fluid amounts and interior wear/condition for the youtubes... 🤔

i know that some of the cases i am looking at dont all play nice with top mounted radiators, because of were the RAM is, and where the fans get placed because of the width of the radiator.. and lets also hope one can access the power and cpu pin headers up there or if its pushing on those too

i dont want to do a front mount, but i will if i have to

[Seajay]

I think Silverstone has some nice RGB fan options. Overall your parts seem fine, hard to judge brand new hardware
I would look at a custom water loop to tie in your 3080. It is just such a good investment when done right and scales easily. The quiet is just so nice to have. That would also let you pick whatever fan options you want since the cooling requirement will be simpler. If you do your own glycol style coolant the loop is almost maintenance free, just need to top it up on occasion. I made my own using Honda/Acura anti-freeze (blue) and distilled water. The other stuff you can buy might cool a little better but you do need to change it, and I didn't want to do that lol. The Honda stuff works because it does not have the aggressive cleaners some other brands use, so it is very safe.

[Tracker]

I think Silverstone has some nice RGB fan options. Overall your parts seem fine, hard to judge brand new hardware
I would look at a custom water loop to tie in your 3080. It is just such a good investment when done right and scales easily. The quiet is just so nice to have. That would also let you pick whatever fan options you want since the cooling requirement will be simpler. If you do your own glycol style coolant the loop is almost maintenance free, just need to top it up on occasion. I made my own using Honda/Acura anti-freeze (blue) and distilled water. The other stuff you can buy might cool a little better but you do need to change it, and I didn't want to do that lol. The Honda stuff works because it does not have the aggressive cleaners some other brands use, so it is very safe.

ill look into what would be required for a custom loop. ive always liked them but custom loops scare me, "never water-cool something you cant afford to replace 100%" was a rule I have lived by since they first popped up on the scene 15-ish years ago. but, as a former aircraft mechanic, and frequent tinkerer of pneumatic things, im relatively positive i could build my own leak free open loop.. but still scared. i appreciate the convenience of the AIO for both the relative assurance that its leak free, and the ease of being able to reposition it or add components if i need to

water blocks and clear tubing will ALWAYS be cooler looking than air or light up fans on a generic radiator.. openloop would allow me to do a bottom mount radiator if i wanted to which opens up a few case options 🤔 (as long at the reservoir is above the pump.. the air has somewhere to collect thats not the radiator or the pump)

and im also okay with ditching the whole thing and just plopping one of the new chromax noctua air coolers in there too.. would certainly lower the price of the build. and remove the ram clearance issue ill most likely be having

Unsolicited advise for all
speaking of Cooling, I was reading an article that was very heavily suggesting that one should wait for a cooler released after or designed for the LGA1700 chipset for a couple reasons

1. the new heat spreader is asymmetric
2. the new heat spreader is likely to be larger than a lot of AIO cold plates
3. the overall stack height of the new socket/chip is lower

the only way to make the older ones work at all is if you get adapter plates from your manufacturer. but even those arent proving to be great.. there are some major contact pressure issues with the older AIOs and the new adapters.. at least as per some testing photos that i havent been able to find the context of yet

[Seajay]

Air isn't an issue with a custom loop. You'll spend the most on the pump, get a good one. These will last forever and are rebuildable (D5 Laing), they are industrial pumps tweaked for PC use. The head flow on them is strong enough to clear air out of the lines. This is one of the desirable aspects as you don't need to worry about bubbles.

Definitely wait for the new socket spec to be specific to the cooler. I haven't looked but I'm shocked there are not a few options available.

These CPU's are 125W rated which means you have quite a bit of heat to manage. I love tower coolers but if you go this route you'll need a bigger case, as you will need a big tower. The AIO would perform the same as a high end air tower (240mm).

Regarding the i7 vs i9, if this is just a personal computer the i7 will be fine. If you are not using 16 cores 24 threads now, what will you be using them for later?
The only thing I can consider for 12th gen is that 8 of those cores are the "performance" cores, with the remaining efficiency cores. I have no idea what that means yet in terms of performance, only that idle will be nearly in an "off" state and this method is something Apple and phones have been doing for a while. Laptops would see the biggest benefit with desktops being... meh?

[Tracker]

Regarding the i7 vs i9, if this is just a personal computer the i7 will be fine. If you are not using 16 cores 24 threads now, what will you be using them for later?
The only thing I can consider for 12th gen is that 8 of those cores are the "performance" cores, with the remaining efficiency cores. I have no idea what that means yet in terms of performance, only that idle will be nearly in an "off" state and this method is something Apple and phones have been doing for a while. Laptops would see the biggest benefit with desktops being... meh?

performance cores are the ones with 2 threads per now instead of one, so, 8 p cores = 16 threads, and 8 e cores in the i9, the i7 will have 4 less e cores, and im willing to take that hit if necessary, but it would be nice to have the best chip for a little while.. besides, at this point. a lack of cores is a driving force for my upgrade, i want all i got coming to me!!

[Tracker]

so, preorders for the new gen of stuff opened up yesterday.. some things sold out hilariously fast..

motherboards are horifically overpriced i have noticed that since about the 10th gen, the mobo prices are going up dramatically, the USB ports are disappearing, and you are probably going to get to pay for a wifi controller that you never wanted in the first place

i prefer ASUS for my mobo, the last gigabyte board i had, i didnt like, i switched to asus, and have been quite happy with their builds since
i have built with asrock, but 6 usb ports on a 300 dollar board is a hard no from me..

my specification for what motherboard i want involves the one with enough USB ports, which in the case of the Z690 offerings from Asus, means the ROG Strix Z690-E.. at a lovely $450 and no option to avoid wifi, thats how you get 12 usb ports, BUT one is also a bios update port so i tend to use that one last, and 2 are USB C, and seeing as how nothing i own plugs in with C, those are are as useful as ESATA or firewire ports.. so, 9.. 9 fully available ports is the MAXIMUM number you can purchase on a modern motherboard 🤦♂️

this board has some quirks with the M.2 ports.. one of them looks like its wired through the PCIE5 controller, so if you have a drive in that slot the PCIE 5.0 slot will only run at x8 instead of x16, but i cant find out the details, because the documentation hasnt been uploaded to ASUS's support site..

processor; the only place to buy one for actual MSRP is bestbuy.. and im actually happy to give them my business. i was at a store Tuesday and they had a X570 crosshair in their case.. (that was the AMD board i was planning on using if i decide to switch to team red..) i actually have some hope that i might be able to get a CPU from them and avoid all the online retailers that have decided to get in on the gouge game

RAM; this part is a bit worrisome, i was figuring i was gonna do a 4x8 quad channel, but the smallest DDR5 sticks im seeing are 16... that either tells me that all that will be available at launch is 16's, or the 8's are still on a cargo ship and they are gonna send what they got

odds are, ill be patiently waiting, snapping up parts as they come on sale, starting with a i9 KF (i like the idea of paying under $600 for the chip)

[Seajay]

I don't actually think we will see 8GB RAM.... just like the transition from DDR2 to DDR3 capacity per module increases, so 16 will probably be the normal. Keep in mind DDR5 is expected to have up to 128GB on a single stick.

I also learned some new stuff about DDR5. Not only is it extremely fast, 5200 for the base module, and very high capacity, but it now moves the power management to the Memory stick. It also introduces two lanes of processing, which are independent of each-other. This means that less bits need to be filled before sending to the CPU, so the memory doesn't have to say require 1000bits of data when you only need 500. Now it can just send the 500, which should be overall faster. With 2 independent lanes and 5200+ speeds (the fastest DDR4 module is 5333 Mhz overclocked) even 1 stick of 16 GB should be very good, and 2 sticks for double data rate should be all most regular folks would ever need (today*).

There is now also a form of memory correction being included, as part of moving the power controller to the ram from the CPU (previously the North Bridge chip). Long over-due, but definitely required for the high Ram availability.

Pricing is stupid... hopefully the market will normalize, but you are also paying first adopters tax

[Tracker]

https://www.newegg.com/crucial-16gb-...82E16820156286

saw this today, makes be hopeful that cheap RAM will still be a thing

i just think the first order of all the factories punching out the sticks for everyone was 16gig first, from a manufacturing standpoint, it makes sense, they will need to make a much higher volume of chips at 8 gig.. and given how screwed up the ports are, i assume that they were supposed to be in the hands of the sellers weeks ago, but i highly suspect the rams are in a cargo ship growing mussels while anchored off the CA cost..

i can preorder the motherbaord this AM through newegg, but paying over $500 for a mobo just doesnt feel right

[Tracker]

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/i...th-gen/23.html

May do the i7 after all.. that's a pretty solid technical look at the two, and not having to find somewhere to stash the thermal overhead of the i9 for relatively small gain Even a lot of the builders are getting nervous about the size of the radiator required to keep the temps down, and they aren't terribly compatible with the idea of "build small"

[Seajay]

Gamers Nexus or Linus (one of the two) did a overclocking test recently. With the two different core types it looked more preference was to use the AI overlocking functions, then tune voltage manually. Also the performance gain numbers didn't really seem that great for overclocking.

Looks like it really is starting to become pick your chip that fits your build, and that's it really. Not a bad thing necessarily, but sucks for those that like to overclock.

[Tracker]

i haven't overclocked a chip in forever honestly... the K is more useful to me because it has the better boost clock (or they used to anyways)

i have accepted that i am building with an i7.. no idea which AIO to stick on it

still on the fence about which mobo, if I go with the G and lose 2 USB ports, i can do a pretty sweet vertical GPU mount with the meshify case (will need to change the cable, but that seems do-able) or i can build normal with the E.

RAM will most likely be some low profile g.skill S5, id like to get the LEDs on the Z5, but i think the height of the S5 will do me more favors with this build than the LED ones
memory wont be in stock on newegg till black friday anyways, (totally on accident, im sure...) so maybe the LED ones will drop in the same batch and ill get to decide

*edits*
so im really not a fan of gigabyte, the last 2 boards i have dealt with from them were not pleasant experiences, thats was a long time ago though (Z68 era)
BUT
the Z690 AORUS PRO is actually looking like a really solid mobo.. theres an overclocker on YouTube that likes to go deep into the power delivery, he had very nice things to say about this board. and it would actually be a great over clocking board if i wanted to..

so does anyone have any positive gigabyte experiences to share to make me feel less apprehensive about it?

[Seajay]

Gigabyte warranty is garbage, but if you are buying from a store then if the board fits your needs it's probably fine. It's a higher end board so QC is better, and you can just go back to the store to return it. My experience if the board works within the first 2 weeks of use it should work for years, as any faults from shipping or QC generally present themselves quickly.

That said... I think Asus, MSI, and EVGA have better components and build quality on their mid-high end boards.

[Tracker]

Gigabyte warranty is garbage, but if you are buying from a store then if the board fits your needs it's probably fine. It's a higher end board so QC is better, and you can just go back to the store to return it. My experience if the board works within the first 2 weeks of use it should work for years, as any faults from shipping or QC generally present themselves quickly.

That said... I think Asus, MSI, and EVGA have better components and build quality on their mid-high end boards.

right there with you, usually with in 2 weeks you know if its going to act right..

and i agree with you that asus, msi and evga make better boards, id put gigabyte only in front of asrock and zotac, and thats about it..

unfortunatly, theres caveats all over the asus line up, and most of the board are overpriced, with a side of "retailers taking a cut" on top of it
MSI carbon black was spoken of highly, 9 USB ports.. and ive never used an MSI board, though thats not really a downside
and i would LOVE to give EVGA a go again (i had one of their boards years ago, when Nforce4 was a north bridge option that worked with intel) but EVGA's mobo production is TERRIBLE.. like guys are just NOW getting their notifications to buy their Z590 boards they put their name down for when the 11th gen came out
and EVGA's Z590 boards only had 6 USB A ports and i will never buy a motherboard with a PS/2 port on it again on principal

[Tracker]

i got the ram!

caught a combo deal for a Gigabyte Aorus Ultra and 2x16 Gskill Z5 PC6000 I'm willing to give gigabyte the benefit of the doubt for 12 USB A ports..

i sure do hope i dont have to return it, cause the ram would have to go back with it and that stuff is way too hard to come by