Upgrading an older PC...

[DavidBoren]

I might be getting an older (~5yo?) desktop given to me, and without knowing the specifics of its motherboard, etc, I want to talk about order of operations for upgrading it.

Define your terms is always first. Intent and goals. Realistic expectations.

Identify the motherboard is probably second. This will determine what slots are available and what components are supported.

Cooling is most likely next. This is probably going to be plugged into a TV in the living room, so maybe a stand-alone liquid cooler, because they are quiet? I don't need anything fancy, so space available may dictate what goes in there more than anything else.

RAM. All of it. Obviously more is better, get the most that will fit.

From here, there are a few different paths that one could pursue...

The CPU.

The graphics card.

SSD/HDD space.

I imagine that the CPU may have to be upgraded in order to support better graphics cards. So it probably goes CPU>graphics card>hard drive space... like I have them listed. But I don't know.

What do you look for in a CPU?

If the motherboard is capable of supporting it, would it be worth holding on to the old graphics card and running it piggyback/bridged with the new one. Are two heads better than one? How difficult is it to run two graphics cards (assuming the motherboard can support them both)?

This will mostly be an extension of a smart TV, not necessarily a gaming PC... although it will probably get games like Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout4 on it. I can't afford 4k TV's, so I don't expect 4k graphics. Some of the games are over 10yo, so it's not like the graphics are going to impress anyone anyways.

[Rusty Brass]

Depending on what you've got you probably don't need to touch it in order to run a tv or those games. If you're looking to boost graphics then a single video card and a ram upgrade is as far as I'd go - unless you're just looking to blow some cash. Two video cards is more hassle than it's worth unless you're spending thousands of dollars to wring every last pixel and frame out of it.

Mostly just get a couple of cans of canned air, clean it out, look up your specs, shrug, and then plug it in. For the money you'd spend trying to upgrade a five year old system you could build a new one for only slightly more that'd be better.

[DavidBoren]

Look up the specs and shrug. That made me laugh until I stopped.

This is going to be a tinkering experiment. Something to get me into computers before I build my own.

I am not looking to needlessly spend money, but I do want to dive in deep enough to actually learn something. I would especially like the experience before it comes time to upgrade my daughter's new computer.

When my daughter and I upgrade her computer, it's going to be me and YouTube as the resident experts on the matter. So it not being my first time would be comforting to me.

I am not going to replace the motherboard, and therefore it dictates how far it is even possible to go. Probably not very far, either. The best components that are compatible with it are still outdated, and hopefully relatively cheap because of it.

For me, this is one of those times where the journey is more important than the destination.

[MrKittyCatMeowFace]

Yeah running twin graphics cards is for if running ultra on the newest games with tons of mods and just taxing your rig constantly. Gtx 1080 is a great card that will do plenty. For memory id say atleast 16 is fine. 32 if you want a ton, no need to get 64, (already got 8gb of vram on a 1080). Ssd hard drive for at least your OS to install on. Hdd for everything else is cool. Cpu i look for multicore and what the numbers on the back are bigger. Lol. I had a intel I7 quad core should work fine. I prefer just fans to cool it, i dont like any liquids near my electronics. Motherboard i have no clue.

[russc]

5 years old isn't even that old. I'm using a computer built around an i5 2500k from 2011, and it does just about everything I want it to including limited VR and 1080p 60fps in games like Overwatch.

Your best bang for the buck will be to get an SSD, at least as a boot drive.

[Mr. Hick]

I second this! I'm still running my 2011 Digital storm computer. I threw an extra 8gb of ram in it and dropped in two new SSD to replace my too small boot drive (128gb was an expensive drive in 2011) and found a used 2060... for a total of $400 I'm running 60fps (1080) in every game I own except elden ring, which is in the low 40s. I have a lot of hours on this rig and it wont quit.

[cellophane]

Assuming the motherboard/CPU is reasonable- You can use CPUz to get all the relevant stats for the system, and Crucial has a memory scanner on their website that is pretty good for figuring out memory upgrades.

Personally- I would do a clean OS install on an SSD (min 500Gb) and install a secondary data drive. The speed increase is 100% worth it, and it is an easy update to make. You can keep the old drive if you really want, but depending on the specs it may not be worth it. Then I would update the RAM to at least 16, if not 32. Then add a video card. As others mentioned a 1080 would be more than enough for what it sounds like you are needing. You could probably get by with a 970/980 but the 10 series isn't that much more money at this point. Excluding the video card, you are looking at less than $500- and that includes a new seat of Windows 10 Pro (+/-$100- 32Gb Ram, +/-$100 1Tb SSD, $200 Windows 10 Pro [through MS; OEM copies are less but have restrictions]).

When you do get a video card- make sure the outputs work with what you are connecting to. Nothing worse than buying a nice card only to realize once you get home that the 4x Display Port connections are useless with your monitor. The 10 & 20 series NVIDIA cards tend to have a lot of DP connections and only one or two HDMI. There are connectors available but it is just an additional annoyance.

Replacing the processor will depend on what is available. For work systems I tend to look more for high clock speed, but that is based on the applications I'm running (Revit, Enscape, AutoCAD, etc) and they generally don't care about multiple cores.

And from personal experience- I would recommend getting an anti-static wrist strap. I've fried components and it sucks to troubleshoot and fix.

[DavidBoren]

Clean OS on a new SSD. That sounds like a good place to start.

Antistatic wristband. Got it. I don't want static to damage the voice card, then my computer will only speak Spanish (like Lopez, from Red v Blue).

I was browsing the interwebs and found myself spiraling down the rabbit hole... reading about dual cpu motherboards, quad SLI gpu's, custom liquid cooling... madness.

The possibilities are endless.

I wish there was something fun or useful to do with old graphics cards. Daisy chain their antiquated computing power towards a single purpose, or whatever. Make neural networks or something.

Upgrading computers seems so wasteful.

If the graphics card in the computer I am getting happens to be a dual gpu card (gtx 590 or 690) I will probably invest in doubling it up (quad SLI) instead of replacing it. Assuming that the motherboard will support it, obviously. I'm not going to be running 4k graphics or anything like that, so two older cards should hold me over for a while.

When it comes time to upgrade the graphics card in my daughter's computer, I will take her current one and put it in my computer. Pretty sure she has a better graphics card right meow than whatever dual 690's will ever do. So it will still be an upgrade for my computer, as well.

I am thinking about a dual cpu motherboard for the same reason. Wait until it's time to upgrade the cpu in my daughter's computer, then steal her old cpu and double it up with whatever cpu my computer has on a new motherboard. Not that I need a personal server, but I like to tinker... and it seems like a better idea than just throwing the old $#!+ in a landfill... even though my old motherboard would then probably end up in a landfill. Lol.

Now, my daughter's computer is brand new, so we won't be replacing anything on it for a while. And I will be mostly waiting to upgrade my computer until after we upgrade hers (at least for the components that I can use from her machine). I am sure prices for these components will plummet in the near future... as a new era of computer technology is on the immediate horizon.

[Seajay]

You really need to know what exactly you are getting in terms of hardware to know what to change.
The tech difference is enormous over the past 5 years. However with that said, the performance level is actually somewhat flat, with improvements here and there but generally speaking "old" hardware is exceptional within the past 3-4 years.

Firstly... SLI/Xfire is dead. Few if any games use it properly. New motherboards barely support it. New graphics cards have limited support, and we are talking the $1500 price range. The technology is just not liked anymore.

A dual gpu is fine... but the biggest change in terms of program use is the expanded memory offering. 6GB of VRAM is the standard these days with a 4GB minimum. 3GB graphics cards will still work just fine, such as a GTX780, but the games going forward in 2020 will be developed with 6GB of minimum memory in mind. In terms of graphics a GTX1660ti 6GB card is superior to a dual 590 card, in performance, power, and efficiency, for $250 new (hopefully to drop in price with Nvidia 3000 series releasing soon...ish").

Old motherboards will be limited in PCIe lanes, which dictate how many things you can have in a computer without compromise, or disabling features. You can always get an adapter to run new tech, like a PCIe adapter to host NVME Gen4 Data Drives.

As for CPU's this is really where performance is somewhat flat. A Intel i7 4770k which is still about $100 offers plenty of performance power for programs and games.
I know this because I run a 3770k which I bought at release in 2012 and it runs everything, games, programs, editing, whatever perfectly.

So once you know what hardware you have you can make decisions.

The biggest impact will be a graphics card and an SSD as the operating and games drive. The difference in usability between a HardDrive (platter drive) and a SSD is significant.

As far as dual CPU's... don't. Current generation of CPU's are all about the cores. 10 - 64 core monsters. Dual CPU motherboards are limited in who makes them and then you have to know a good amount to set them up properly. These boards are really for servers and computing jobs. There isn't anything for regular users that will actually use dual CPU's that a multi-core single CPU can't do better. - however if you want a project and to tinker... jump right in!

[MrKittyCatMeowFace]

Thx for the writeup. computers are hard if you dont stay in the know a lot. Xd

Im gonna enjoy building my gaming tower eventually.

[DavidBoren]

Thank you for the advice and information.

I know SLI is dead, but if the motherboard and graphics card can support it, then it seems better than replacing the existing graphics card. I know the old graphics card is going to need some help, but I don't want to just replace it if I can reuse it.

This computer is not going to see too many modern games anyways... and the older games that I am interested in installing on this machine are actually from the SLI era. Pretty sure Skyrim and Fallout4 both have SLI support. Not that I am actively trying to max out the settings for them, but oh well.

As for the dual cpu motherboard... it would be purely for the tinkering aspect of all that is involved with such a setup. I really don't need a personal server. Nor do I have any need for the massive computing power associated with such a thing. I have a habit of diving into the deep end whenever I pick up something new to direct my focus.

By the time I get around to actually upgrading this thing, everything will be yesterday's tech anyways. I know that this particular computer will never be fast. Upgrading this computer is simply a learning experience for me. If I find that I enjoy upgrading computers, I might build my own someday.

Useless old tech kind of intrigues me. So SLI and dual cpu motherboards are right up my alley. Lol.

[Seajay]

Thank you for the advice and information.

I know SLI is dead, but if the motherboard and graphics card can support it, then it seems better than replacing the existing graphics card. I know the old graphics card is going to need some help, but I don't want to just replace it if I can reuse it.

This computer is not going to see too many modern games anyways... and the older games that I am interested in installing on this machine are actually from the SLI era. Pretty sure Skyrim and Fallout4 both have SLI support. Not that I am actively trying to max out the settings for them, but oh well.

As for the dual cpu motherboard... it would be purely for the tinkering aspect of all that is involved with such a setup. I really don't need a personal server. Nor do I have any need for the massive computing power associated with such a thing. I have a habit of diving into the deep end whenever I pick up something new to direct my focus.

By the time I get around to actually upgrading this thing, everything will be yesterday's tech anyways. I know that this particular computer will never be fast. Upgrading this computer is simply a learning experience for me. If I find that I enjoy upgrading computers, I might build my own someday.

Useless old tech kind of intrigues me. So SLI and dual cpu motherboards are right up my alley. Lol.

Cool, well I can help answer any questions you have.
I also forgot one critical question... and that is what Power Supply you will have. The dual GPU 590/690 was a power hog, so you'll need a beefy PSU that will have the right connections to run it.
Dual cpu motherboards are a fun tinkers dream, so if you can find one with the expansion slots you want, go for it! They tend to be quite expensive though, with specific RAM requirements. If it is a Super Micro board you'll even need to assign PCIe lanes between the CPU's. You should be able to find reasonably cheap Xeon processors to play with too.

The Modern day games can easily run on most hardware. There are a ton of reviews about 4k gaming content and 144hz refresh rates, which does require some beef to push out that many pixels. However for 1080p 60fps today's budget hardware easily runs at this resolution.

So I'm interested in what you pickup. The governing factors of what you can do are the motherboard and power supply.

[ybbpi]

5 years old isn't even that old. I'm using a computer built around an i5 2500k from 2011, and it does just about everything I want it to including limited VR and 1080p 60fps in games like Overwatch.

Your best bang for the buck will be to get an SSD, at least as a boot drive.

Yep that was kind of what I was telling him in the other thread. Quad core is more than good enough, even for modern games. I second getting an SSD.

Older motherboards can definitely handle new graphics cards. Almost no graphics card even uses all 16x PCIE lanes, maybe workstation graphics cards.
The only thing that would actually hold back a newer graphics card would be the CPU and that would only be in the case of super graphics intense games at max settings, like a heavily modded skyrim.
You'll be fine with new nvidia cards in 1060/1070/1660 or 2060/2070. SLI is bad because if you pair up a better card with a worse card, the better card is forced to perform at the same level as the worse card.

I really wouldn't bother getting more ram if it already has 16GB, especially if it's DDR3 when DDR5 is right around the corner.

So I would do. SSD> 8 GB Vram Graphics Card> HDD for downloaded movies/shows *cough*> nice peripherals IE headphones/keyboards/mice/mousepad/desk chair> USB 3.1 PCIE Card> DAC&Amplifier Combo> CPU> Ram

[Siress]

It occurs to me that something like UserBenchmark.com might be great for you. It will give you a relative performance measure to other users, and show you where the system may be lacking - both in hardware and perhaps even in settings you missed. For example, if your GPU performance is at the bottom few percent of other reports with that same card, then you need to check your settings.

I'm with the above posters that suggested an SSD (if it doesn't already have one) and fresh OS. If this it's a 5yo mid range pre-built system (e.g. Dell, HP, et al.) then you should really do your homework on that particular model and configuration before touching the CPU and, to a lesser extent, the RAM. Without knowing the specifics, I will the following general hardware upgrade strategy. Each phase here is 'as you can...' rather than all at once. I just broke it up into phases because there's typically a long period between them.

Phase 1)

1. M.2 PCIe SSD over PCIe to M.2 adapter
2. If missing, a quality chair, keyboard, mouse, wireless headphones, and giant desk mat. You can get into the audiophile stuff if you want, but everyone needs wireless headphones.
3. If <12GB of RAM, either get a stick of the same capacity, clock speed, and CAS latency to add in - or toss it all and get a new ≥16GB kit that is rated for the highest clock speed reasonably affordable. Triple check the compatibility with that particular motherboard and CPU; # of slots, size, type, power reqs, and channels.
4. Graphics card... If you have no intention of upgrade beyond to 1080p 60Hz display, then 4GB of GDDR is fine. I'd recommend getting a higher resolution display before dropping coin on a higher end graphics card. Something like the an RX 5500 XT will be a good value. I recommend intentionally getting something relatively lower performance/cheaper than the rest of the build because after the big upgrade this will be the first component to be upgraded.

Then, it's time to enjoy what you've built and save up for the next phase - the big upgrade. Phase 2)

1. Up to this point, you've probably using a non-standard motherboard layout (i.e. not ATX, ITX, etc.) It's time to change that. All at once, upgrade the Case, Motherboard, and CPU. You might have to also replace the PSU and any bay devices you used. Right now, king of the value CPU mountain is the Ryzen platform by a significant margin. The specific models change frequently, though, so do your research when the time comes. CPU and MoBo are easily the most difficult components to learn how to choose.
2. Once you upgrade the motherboard, you can reuse the RAM and change the BIOS settings to use the higher clock speed it was rated for (or higher...but let's not overclock stuff yet).
3. The M.2 SSD should have a dedicated M.2 slot on the new MoBo.
4. The GFX card is a direct transfer.

Now it's time to save up again... Phase 3)

1. New display if you haven't already.
2. GFX card upgrade.

If you have several users in the house, I think you could save some coin by getting a NAS rather than more internal drives. I'm a huge fan of Synology products. This can be useful for not just other desktops, but for any other computer - including cellphones - and for accessing files while you're away from home without paying for cloud service fees.

[DavidBoren]

I am hoping that Nvidia buys ARM, and becomes a direct competitor with AMD across the market. I think that would be good for everyone (except Intel).

Should I be moving away from Intel chipsets?

They seem to be stalling as others are making moves.

Am I a day late and a dollar short on ditching Intel?

Has AMD been the better choice for a while now?

Who else is there?

[Rusty Brass]

The Intel/AMD thing is all personal preference. They've been jockeying back and forth for years for the "lead" but the differences between the two in performance and price are pretty much negligible. Arm will just be another abstraction for the fan boys to argue about. It will make no actual difference to the people posting memes on the interwebs or yelling at people with their tweet machines.

[Siress]

The Intel/AMD thing is all personal preference. They've been jockeying back and forth for years for the "lead" but the differences between the two in performance and price are pretty much negligible.

Not quite. Intel has a broader range of offerings. In every apples-to-apples comparison the Ryzen platform is a demonstrably better value. So, if a Ryzen offering exists for your particular use case (e.g. PC gaming) then it is, across the board, a better value.