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A crash course in Audi

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    A crash course in Audi

    I have been searching for a second car for a bit over a month. Without getting too deep into that story....I ended up selecting a 2013 Audi A4 Quattro 2.0T. It's got the Premium Plus package and honestly offered every bell and whistle I wanted in a car within the price and age range I was looking for. I thought I had a good grasp on what I was getting into as I did quite a bit of uninformed research about the brand before purchase. It was by far the most well priced, best driving, and good looking vehicles I had looked at. We looked at it early in the week before it had been touched or detailed and picked it up after a test drive on Friday this past week. The car is outwardly very clean, drives great and is quite powerful feeling for it's output, but....

    I had read about these cars having oil consumption problems. The factory manual states that they can consume some oil between scheduled maint. It is apparently not uncommon for this to be ~ 1Qt for every 1K miles. According to the enthusiast sites this can readily approach 600 or so miles to the quart with spirited driving. The first two days we had the car it did not use oil and only had evidence of "lot rot" in regard to a small bit of sooty smoke on rev which quickly subsided. This afternoon bringing it home from work I had been driving at some very pedestrian pace. I found an opening, got into it's ass a bit and a nice plume of oil smoke trails out back. Shortly thereafter a check engine light (the second one) comes on. I check to find that within roughly 300 miles I have used 3/4 of a quart of oil with very little to no outward sign of it.

    The first CEL was in relation to the car being low on gas when I went on the test drive. Fairly sure that it pulled up some trash or whatnot from the bottom of the tank. Upon adding the half quart of oil the (second) CEL has gone out. The first set was in relation to some fuel composition, pressure on demand, and a lean condition on bank 1. This (first) issue has not reoccurred since clearing the codes.

    I have a couple of checks to do sometime this week or weekend. I need to see if there is oil in the downpipe from the turbo, need to check/replace the PCV, and pull a fresh oil change and some really good gas. I know the oil was changed but cannot be sure it is the very specific oil that the manufacturer wants on this one. I have been asking around on the forums for such and seems like I might be over reacting in relation to this issue. I mentioned that I have owned RX7 that didn't use this much oil. I am rather hoping that it's just this finicky about some simple aspect. I come to find that even used engines and the labor to install are near the value of the car as a whole. None of the four Audi specialists I contacted today will even touch a rebuild (of existing). I found a place in Jax that will, but that's five hours away. Joy. Road Trip (with some oil in the boot)

    I have to say, aside from all that mess, that this is likely one of the most fun cars I have ever driven in relation to it's power output. It's zippy without being obscene, handles like a dream and stops on a dime. All the while in comfort and quiet inside a well appointed interior. This seems to prove the pay to play adage.


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    #2
    Hold on, I know a guy.
    I could have sworn I had something important to put here...
    ​​​​​​Your friendly neighborhood Hive Tyrant. Convert to the cult Automag.

    Comment


    • punkncat

      punkncat

      commented
      Editing a comment
      If only you are serious, lol.

    • Headshotted
      Headshotted commented
      Editing a comment
      He's my former saab guy now audi shop foreman, annnnd I may have had an rx8 at some point in time, so, I trust his judgement.

    • Headshotted
      Headshotted commented
      Editing a comment
      His feedback was "It needs pistons" which seems to be a general consensus.

    #3
    Hate to bring the bad news.

    I recommended every 2 oil changes you replace that timing chain guide. It runs on oil pressure keeps tension on the chain. They have a tendency to snap off get caught in the Chain and it blows the motor. It’s not super expensive unless it breaks, but it’s still an added cost. If you don’t know when the last time it was done I would get it in ASAP. That’s why the 2.0T have a lower resale value. It could be broke now causing the issues you described.

    Its hard to tell by sound because of the direct port injection makes a funny sound sig. I would get it looked at right away. I wouldn’t drive it.

    Comment


      #4
      Originally posted by Chuck E Ducky View Post
      Hate to bring the bad news.

      I recommended every 2 oil changes you replace that timing chain guide. It runs on oil pressure keeps tension on the chain. They have a tendency to snap off get caught in the Chain and it blows the motor. It’s not super expensive unless it breaks, but it’s still an added cost. If you don’t know when the last time it was done I would get it in ASAP. That’s why the 2.0T have a lower resale value. It could be broke now causing the issues you described.

      Its hard to tell by sound because of the direct port injection makes a funny sound sig. I would get it looked at right away. I wouldn’t drive it.
      By my understanding the issue with the timing chain guide was rectified by the time this car was made, however it is still important to pay attention to deflection. In a very general sense my understanding is that the ignition control computer will compensate for the eventuality up to a point before throwing codes of it's own. It is absolutely something that I need to have checked a good number of things ASAP. I am going to call Audi themselves tomorrow and see what a diagnostic runs there...I cannot imagine it being cheap.
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        #5
        Originally posted by latches109
        I know this engine very well.
        Do you have a Ross tech vcds cable?
        Did you do a compression test?
        Have zero experience with Audi/VW 2.0T
        Don't have the cable as I learned of it's existence a day or so ago.
        Haven't been able to schedule with a shop of any kind as they are all backed up. The two local Audi shops I went to are booked into Dec.

        Headshotted- Yes, it would outwardly appear that either the rings are gone, which is highly likely, or that the turbo is gone, which is only slightly less likely, and both is a high probability as well. As I mention, none of the shops two of which I walked into and two I called, will even consider doing a rebuild. Their go to answer is essentially a junk yard motor.
        Even one of those with 60K+ miles are running near 5 grand.
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        • punkncat

          punkncat

          commented
          Editing a comment
          I am heading out to get a vacuum/pressure gauge right now. Was told to check for certain pressures at the oil dipstick tube cover and the intake. This is supposed to indicate whether the PCV valve is working correctly, according to a guy on enthusiast forum. I am also going to see if I can locate my ramps or perhaps use a friend's lift to get under it and pull the downpipe. I have been told that I should see some oil but that a bad turbo will likely generate a goodly amount collected in there. It was also advised that I pull the cat back to see if there is play in the something or other plate (it won't come to me now) in that if it wiggles and spins freely is an indication of a bad turbo.

          There is a shop around the way that I may have do that compression test and perhaps even scope the bore while they are in there.

          I appreciate the advice and tips. I can only assume you own one or a few of these?

        • punkncat

          punkncat

          commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes, it was mentioned to do that and see if oil "blew out" in my face. Idle went slightly off, no blowing of oil...however was looking for a bit more validation that that considering these are a $200+ PCV that I may not need.

          Yesterday I put some of the for sure correct oil in it, and put some of the Top Tier graded 93 octane in as recommended in the Audi manual. No CEL or any events today.

        • punkncat

          punkncat

          commented
          Editing a comment
          CPMA according to the label in the wheel well. I have not pulled the shroud to see the metal plate yet.

        #6
        What location you out of Punkncat?

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          #7
          Originally posted by Chuck E Ducky View Post
          What location you out of Punkncat?
          Atlanta
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          • punkncat

            punkncat

            commented
            Editing a comment
            Ask him what the going rate is for someone to do the rings, pistons, associated gaskets, timing, and presumably a water pump (?) in y'all neck of the woods?

            The only place I have found so far that even says they do it in in Jax and it appears they are going to be really expensive.

          • Headshotted
            Headshotted commented
            Editing a comment
            Let me ask my brother if he has any reasonable contacts down that way.

          • punkncat

            punkncat

            commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks fellas!

          #8
          in the quest for MPG and fuel efficiency , a lot of manufacturers have switch over to "low tension piston rings".
          apparently they reduce friction on the intake and exhaust stroke. the issue is that they are more likely to become seized in the ring land.
          i never heard of "LTPR's" until a few months ago... never knew it was a thing.

          Comment


            #9
            Originally posted by Tarsun2 View Post
            in the quest for MPG and fuel efficiency , a lot of manufacturers have switch over to "low tension piston rings".
            apparently they reduce friction on the intake and exhaust stroke. the issue is that they are more likely to become seized in the ring land.
            i never heard of "LTPR's" until a few months ago... never knew it was a thing.
            Add in extended oil change intervals and high engine temps...

            Recipe for engine failures.
            And God turned to Gabriel and said: “I shall create a land called Canada of outstanding natural beauty, with majestic mountains soaring with eagles, sparkling lakes abundant with bass and trout, forests full of elk and moose, and rivers stocked with salmon. I shall make the land rich in oil so the inhabitants prosper and call them Canadians, and they shall be praised as the friendliest of all people.”

            “But Lord,” asked Gabriel, “Is this not too generous to these Canadians?”

            And God replied, “Just wait and see the neighbors I shall inflict upon them."

            Comment


              #10
              i think they use very thin oil as well.
              it makes me wonder: if were using LTPR's and 0W oil to get better mpg and save the planet, what off set does it have when the turbo is burning oil and the rings are shot after 60k miles.

              Comment


                #11
                Before condemning pistons, I would advise on running an oil consumption test first (done and monitored at the dealer). Replacing pistons is probably close to $6K dollars. Make sure there are no external oil leaks as this will throw the test procedure off. Also what specifically was the fault code?

                Comment


                  #12
                  Originally posted by jwatts View Post
                  Before condemning pistons, I would advise on running an oil consumption test first (done and monitored at the dealer). Replacing pistons is probably close to $6K dollars. Make sure there are no external oil leaks as this will throw the test procedure off. Also what specifically was the fault code?
                  I thought I had posted the first set of codes above. P2293/0177/2177. They are related to fuel composition (which could just be a bad sensor), unexpected fuel pressure to demand, and lean bank 1. I had the codes reset, we have been putting the correct fuel in the car and they stayed off for nearly a week. The CEL came back on and I am still waiting on a scanner to come in the mail, haven't been by "Autozone" to have them read it.

                  There is a local shop that deals with Audi a couple of miles from home. They are booked into Dec. but plan to have it by there to let them do a compression/leak down test. I was going to check the PCV and downtube myself, but realized that I would have issue getting under the car so will check with them on that as well. Also going to have them install new brakes and rotors. I have some Powerstop stuff I want on it but don't (yet) have the tool I need to turn off the electric parking brake.

                  I will likely end up having to get that Ross cable and software so I can see what the car is doing.

                  When we first got the car it wasn't smoking or using oil at all. Two days of driving it started and is slowly increasing oil use. I am going through a quart of oil in roughly 3-400 miles, so far as I can tell, possibly a bit more. It doesn't smoke under normal driving, at least not visible from the driver seat. It will puff a cloud when you get in it's ass a bit. I have noted that the last couple of drives that cars will not stay right up on the bumper. I am going to have to ride (in our truck) behind it to see if it's perhaps throwing and oil mist out back. The high use would indicate that as possible.

                  This car has prompted me to go ahead and sign up for AAA, but there is a 30 day wait on the service after paying. I can see this car leaving me on the roadside.
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                    #13
                    I have an appt in Dec with the local Audi specialist (non dealer) to have it checked over. I am going to have him put on the rear brakes ((some powerstops) and do a general diagnostic to find out for sure what is throwing the codes. Honestly think it will come down to the filter and sensor in the tank. Aside from that going to have them check the compression, and look at the turbo to see if it's one or the other with the oil consumption I have been seeing.

                    Aside from all that, having a turbo hot ass little four cyl on 4wd is pretty fucking fun. Weekend driving with a quart of oil in the boot is quite rewarding of it's own accord. The wife and I did a spin down South of here on some curvy roads, and have plans to do again this coming weekend.
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                      #14
                      i miss my 6spd TT225 Quattro.
                      it was a blast when it worked.

                      my buddy had an AWD G35 with a few mods but because the way the automatic was set up, it was a dog. we would line the TT and the G35 up and have fun doing pulls. IIRC i was in 3rd before he even go out of 1st. or maybe i was going into 4th while he was in second gear.

                      and the sound. my oh my the 5v sound was great. eventually the problems were coming quicker than i could fix them and i would up selling it.

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                        #15
                        Okay, so with fuel related issues on the CPMA/CPMB motors, more often than not the high pressure fuel pump is the culprit. What happens is that the fuel enters into the high pressure fuel pump and ends up leaking into crank case. The pump is a piston driven unit and the piston is driven directly from the intake camshaft. So, when fuel leaks from the pump, it travels down the piston and ends up mixing with the engine oil. This creates a whole host of problems. Of course I’m not standing in front of the car to verify if the pump is leaking or not and I’m certainly not ruling out at fuel pressure but, with my experience it’s mostly been the high pressure pump. At least it’s something to think about.

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                        • latches109

                          latches109

                          commented
                          Editing a comment
                          the car would run rough and feel sluggish, boggy.
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