Who has machine tools?!?

[DocsMachine]

Doc, I actually learned 90% of what I know on a Tormach PCNC 1100.

-Great! How much to rent you for about a week? I have a cat you can sleep on while you're here.

Swing by around mid-January when it's forty below and three feet of snow. That way you can't escape as easy.

Doc.

[DocsMachine]

I inherit a beast in my workshop. Came with the house and previous owner was a machinist. One day I’ll even figure out how to use it!

-That's an 11" Harrison L5, probably early 70s. English made, which is not an odd thing to see in Canada. They also made inch-pattern ones for export to the US, so it could be either. Well-regarded lathes, looks like an L-00 taper for the spindle, meaning finding additional chucks (if it doesn't already have some) will be easy to find. Best of all, it looks to be in good enough condition that just a little cleaning and oiling might be all she needs to get 'er up and running.

And then you get the joy- sometimes written as "joy"- of starting to collect tools for it (again, depending on what the previous owner left you.) I will say, though, that if you're serious about playing with it, I'd strongly recommend picking up a decent-quality AXA quickchange toolpost. Those old four-position ones work, and will get you started, but the quickchange versions are a huge improvement.

Doc.

[Rusty Brass]

-Quick Life Tip, or what the clickbait sistes used to call a 'life hack':

NEVER let anyone make you embarrassed over your stuff.

...

So do NOT let people embarrass you over your tools. A poor craftsman with the best tools in the world is still going to produce poor work. A good craftsman can produce good work with virtually any tools. Somebody wants to make fun of your stuff? Screw 'em. Show 'em what you can do.

Doc.

I totally agree not where I was going with that but upon rereading what I posted I can see that's how it came across. I need to work on my wording, been sowing misunderstanding lately with imprecise language it seems. It sounded fine in my head...
I'm self deprecating as a habit but the chagrin here is my mess and only the mess. Allow me at least that small dose of shame. That's like 4 projects worth of just shifting the pile and sorting through the chips.
I grew up poor surrounded by rich kids - when I catch myself gear-snobbing the urge to kick my own ass is palpable. The only reason I want better tools is to up my capabilities so I can build cooler shit. Gauging your worth by what you can buy is a pretty poor way to go through life.

[russc]

Doc, I actually learned 90% of what I know on a Tormach PCNC 1100. I did a co-op gig where I had after-hours shop access, and I pushed that access to its limit.

It was a dead simple machine. Air powered drawbar and a small library of pre indexed tools was enough to make decent time on one-off jobs. I thought it was fantastic and I doubt I'd have grown out of it any time soon.

The Taig is honestly kind of a holdover until I get a garage that can house a tormach of my own.

[Cdn_Cuda]

I inherit a beast in my workshop. Came with the house and previous owner was a machinist. One day I’ll even figure out how to use it! Hopefully...

[DocsMachine]

I'll jump in here and add something to point and laugh at, or cringe in horror, maybe judge...

-Quick Life Tip, or what the clickbait sistes used to call a 'life hack':

NEVER let anyone make you embarrassed over your stuff.

I don't care if it's machines, tools, cars, markers, motorcycles or your collection of My Little Pony figurines. Chances are you have what you have because that's all you could afford, or that's all you needed, or that's all you had room for, or just because that's what made you happy.

Sticking with the machine tools (we'll talk about my warehouse of MLP figurines and the curated travelling show, later ) I will say that one of the few things I actually hate, are the aforementioned tool snobs.

I see this a LOT on the various machinist boards, especially Practical Machinist. Basically those guys over there like to consider themselves "professional" machinists, and really, if you don't have at least a million-five in machines, are billing half a mil in contract work a month, and can measure your metal removal rates in 'tons per hour', then you're not a real machinist.

I, personally, have gotten a ton of bile from these guys, because I've been thinking about buying one of Tormach's milling machines. Basically, being in Alaska, there are no- as in zero- used CNC machines. I'd have to buy from the States and have it shipped up. I can get a used machine relatively cheaply, but you're buying a pig in a poke. How are the spindle bearings? How are the ways? How long are the servo drives going to last? How much would new drives cost if you had to replace one?

I've heard stories of machines going to less than scrap-weight cost, because some electronic part can only be had used, in questionable condition because it's used, and costs literally $5,000 IF you can even find one for sale.

With my luck, I'd pay $5,000 for the machine, $3,000 to get it shipped up here, put another $3,000 in parts into it, and then have the $5,500 spindle bearings croak after just ten hours.

So my plan was to buy new. Well, I can't afford a HAAS (and don't have the room for it anyway) so I've been looking at one of the Tormachs.

But virtually EVERY board I've asked on, has had someone- even over on the Tinker's Guild- pipe up and say something along the lines of "don't buy that toy, buy a real machine."

And that SERIOUSLY pisses me off. They always write that like I've never done any research, never bothered doing any comparisons, and am only buying because I saw a glossy full-page ad in HSM Magazine. They're tool snobs. I've seen these same people talk crap about even HAAS. Again, if your operator isn't raking chips away with a snow shovel, you're apparently not a "real" machinist.

Screw those guys.

I started my business- the one I've been at for just over twenty-two years now, by the way- with a well-worn Jet mill-drill, and a Grizzly 9x20. That 9x20 probably made me $20K in a couple years before I sold it to Have Blue, but you can't even mention the name over on Practical Machinist. I'll bet I did $50K in work on that mill-drill before I replaced it with the Bridgeport clone. And it was a worn-out junker even when I bought it.

But worn out or not, I made things like these on that machine:





The 'Lava' 'Cocker, by the way, I did part of that work with a broken drill bit I reground into a corner-rounding endmill.

So do NOT let people embarrass you over your tools. A poor craftsman with the best tools in the world is still going to produce poor work. A good craftsman can produce good work with virtually any tools. Somebody wants to make fun of your stuff? Screw 'em. Show 'em what you can do.

Doc.

[Rusty Brass]

I'll jump in here and add something to point and laugh at, or cringe in horror, maybe judge... It's not always this messy but it's also not always this clean When free time and motivation overlap the choice is build or straighten up and the former beats the latter most of the time.
I'd love to upgrade my machines, these are pretty beat and finicky, but this is the shop space I've got at the moment and keeping the rust away is a battle I lost long ago. Spending money on better tools will have to wait until I have a climate controlled space. Someday, someday...

[DocsMachine]

Ever try putting a different tape in there? What would happen if you popped in some Guns and Roses?

-You ever see the movie The Mangler? The machine will jump off the table and kill everyone you love.

If you put in a Kenny Loggins tape, it just kills itself.

Doc.

[DocsMachine]

Going a different direction here, don't get mad at me ...

-Absolutely do not get the wrong impression. I prefer old American, yes, but I don't by any means "hate everything else".

One thing I DO 'hate' is snobs. Tool snobs, marker snobs, vehicle sobs, computer snobs, etc. You know, the guy that owns a PC who will badmouth anything made by Apple, the guy with the Ford who will make fun of anyone driving anything not-Ford, etc. I know guys that, if you listen to them, no hand tool save Snap On, Mac or Proto will work- you get the idea that he believes there's no bolt in the world that can be loosened with a Husky or Craftsman. They... I dunno, melt on contact with the fastener, or something, I guess.

As far as machine tools go, I'm very much old-school. I prefer, if given a choice, older American stuff, and I'll generally recommend so. But I started this biz with a Taiwanese-made Jet mill-drill and mainland-Chinese-made Grizzly 9x20 lathe.

For that matter, my current primary mill is a Taiwanese-made, Grizzly-branded clone of a Bridgeport. That's been my main mill (and for about a decade, my only functional mill) since I bought it in 2003, and it's been nearly 100% trouble-free that whole time.

Sure, if I had the choice and the money, I might prefer a "real" Bridgeport, but I'm not so much of a snob I'm gonna kick the Griz out the door and go buy something else.

but I'm planning on CNC converting a Toyo ML-210 lathe once I bring it down over the border.

-That's one of my other fun projects. Took me a couple years just 'cause of my work schedules, but I fully converted one of my "spare" lathes- hey, doesn't everybody have a couple extra - over to a fairly capable CNC.







I'm still kinda weak on programming it, but I'm getting there. I admit I spent a little extra on some better hardware than most home-shop stuff, trying to make as capable a machine as I could afford, but if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Or you can write your code on your computer (ans test/simulate it) and send it over RS232 to the lathe.

-Known colloquially by (so-called) professional machinists as "drip feed", because that's about how fast it is.

A Guild regular came up with a source for like three or four Compact 5's, each with the turret, that could have been had for relatively cheap. ($500 each?) He bought one and it was apparently pretty much plug-and-play. Supposedly uses (or used) it to make a batch of pins for a customer.

I was very tempted to have him pick me up one, and pay the likely $500 or so it'd cost to ship it up here, but in the end I decided against it. I think it'd be fun to play with, and I have several uses for such a thing, but I simply have too many other things to do these days. I already have projects- like the above mentioned lathe- that have taken far too long already simply becauser I have too many other things on my plate.

The prototype I use the most as of now. It's actually decently efficient (more so than the gray and purple as of this moment) in addition to just ripping.

-Nice. Looking forward to seeing more info on it.

I actually have an original Boston R/T 'Cocker, though it hasn't even been pressurized in like 18 years. (See time, comma, lack thereof, above. Been wanting for years to drag that thing out, rebuild it and get it honkin' again.

Doc.

[rawbutter]

Ever try putting a different tape in there? What would happen if you popped in some Guns and Roses?

[cfos00]

-I'm sorry, the rules say you can't just post a drive-by like that without adding more detail. It might get a little off-topic for this particular thread, though, so I suggest starting a fresh one where appropriate, and... well, bragging a bit. I'd like to know more- heck, I might want to order a kit myself. One of the few things I don't have is a functional RT 'Cocker.

Doc.

Ha, I can do a thread on them. I actually am finishing out a run of around 20 for customers, and hoping to knock it out completely once the move is done. They work extremely well once dialed in, and are pretty reliable at that point. I've shot r/t cockers almost exclusively for about 5 years now, and my kits for the past 1 1/2.

I used this set up to knock out the lengthened bolts (lightning bolt with triple o-ring style up front, modernized and lightened jam bolt in back), bolt pin, rods (all but the timing rod), ram covers, tangs, slotted rods, hardlining, trigger plate, frame mods, redesigned valve, and on multiple guns grip shaping needed for the kits. The only thing I couldn't do was the front block, since they are CNC. Ty McNeer helped me on that design, and I outsourced that.

Here are a couple shots of what I have, although the lathe has a better, heavier wedge tool holder in place now, and is bolted to that table to give it more weight.





The prototype I use the most as of now. It's actually decently efficient (more so than the gray and purple as of this moment) in addition to just ripping.

[XEMON]

Hold up, that Emco runs its programs from a tape drive??

Yep: It took me 12 month to track the proper mini-cassette down. It stores a few thousands lines of code per side ...

You could also send your code to the manufacturer and they would make rolls of perforated card and send them back to you. They had a "card reader" with RS232 com. port to connect to the lathe ...

Or you can write your code on your computer (ans test/simulate it) and send it over RS232 to the lathe.

I missed out on picking one of those up for free at my Co-op job, but I'm planning on CNC converting a Toyo ML-210 lathe once I bring it down over the border.

That looks like a cute little lathe ... Keep up posted on the CNC conversion.
Do you know which route you gonna go yet?

[russc]

Hold up, that Emco runs its programs from a tape drive??

I missed out on picking one of those up for free at my Co-op job, but I'm planning on CNC converting a Toyo ML-210 lathe once I bring it down over the border.

[XEMON]

-Big fan of American machines. Especially older ones, they simply don't make machines like those anymore.

Now, that said, it also depends on what you want to do with them. I get along just fine with older manual machines, because that's the way my brain is wired. But if I were to try moving into real, full-time production, I'd be better off dumping the lot and buying a row of modern CNCs. The problem with that, is one of those machines will cost more than I have in a roomful of working, capable machines, and I just don't have the product lines to keep half a million in modern CNCs running.

The rest of you, let's see some more machines. Don't make me spam my own thread with more of my stuff.

Doc.

Going a different direction here, don't get mad at me ...

My EMCO compact 5 CNC: Its NOT American, its VERY small, Its EXTREMELY dirty, but its CNC and the most precise lathe I've ever used ...
Its the MK3 version with tapered threads, multi-cut threads and partial ark capability (it has the full line of G/M code).

You can notice the mos modern memory storage system, a tape player for the digital Philip tapes 😅
And for those wondering, the "cabinet" is an old TV cabinet dresser with "french door" to hide all the mess



I also have a pedestal 6" grinder and a 48" belt sander outside (both saved from the dumpster at work because they didn't pass OSHA safety inspection).
Trying to find the space for a table top mill ... maybe under my workbench where my drill-press currently seat?

[DocsMachine]

I love the older american made machines. They are so worthy of restoring, cheap, and made to be repaired.

-Big fan of American machines. Especially older ones, they simply don't make machines like those anymore.

Now, that said, it also depends on what you want to do with them. I get along just fine with older manual machines, because that's the way my brain is wired. But if I were to try moving into real, full-time production, I'd be better off dumping the lot and buying a row of modern CNCs. The problem with that, is one of those machines will cost more than I have in a roomful of working, capable machines, and I just don't have the product lines to keep half a million in modern CNCs running.

The rest of you, let's see some more machines. Don't make me spam my own thread with more of my stuff.

Doc.