Restoring 100 yo Table Saw

[Jellyghost]

I am fixing up a 100 yo Oliver Table Saw. I think it was made by the Oliver tractor company. It has a 1hp Walker Turner Motor, and I think the motor has a bad capacitor. I don't know where on the internet to ask this... Where do I buy a replacement capacitor? I also included a picture of this silver grease cap. How do I add grease? I am familiar with zerk fittings, but I can't tell what to do besides use a butter knife with this port. (photos coming soon)

[Jellyghost]

[cellophane]

Need pictures of the whole thing!

[Mr. Hick]

maybe this should be DocsMachine ADA thread. I bet he could help you none the less.

[Jellyghost]

I feel like that thread is for machine shop tools. My wood tools seem unworthy.

[Flounder]

Capacitors can be purchased from allied electronics, Newark electronics, mouser electronics. You can also look for a motor rebuild shop near you that may have parts.

The grease cups are easy, pull the cap off. Fill it with grease trying not to have air pockets in there. Once it is full screwing the cap in will add more grease to the bearing. Looking around online you can probably find out what type of grease you should be using and how often to add more.


more info on cap replacement here. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/...d.php?t=314318

[Jellyghost]

Flounder, What would I search to find a local motor rebuild shop? I will investigate the online stores.

[Flounder]

Electric motor repair gave several listings near me. The link in my reply above has a link to Home Depot and the capacitors they offer. I had no clue.

[Grendel]

For a single phase 1hp motor you will need a starting cap somewhere between 150uf - 300uf and 125VAC - 250VAC for a table saw (relatively low load on start). If you do not have the original I'd shoot for something around 200uf @ 125VAC if you get a lot of hum when it starts or hesitates up the capacitance (uf). If you can not find you capacitance value at 125VAC you can just go with a higher voltage rated cap without issue just don't go down below 125VAC. Best if you can find out what it had originally and find a close match. Does it also have a Run Cap too?

[DocsMachine]

I feel like that thread is for machine shop tools. My wood tools seem unworthy.

-Hardly. If I had the space, I'd have a like number of woodworking tools, too.

On the capacitor: Hopefully the original will have a value and voltage. If so, replacements can be had from, as noted, everywhere from eBay to Mouser. It may not be the same physical size and shape, but electrically, it only matters if it has the same capacity and voltage. Grendel has the poop there.

The grease cap is just as Flounder stated- it's just a hole into which you smear a little loose grease (that is, no gun or hose- your butter knife is, actually, almost ideal) and the action of screwing down the cap pushes more grease into the action. That is, you screw the cap down initially, but not all the way. You periodically give the cap another tweak to push a little more grease into the joint.

It's admittedly kind of a hassle, but that was the nature of machinery back in those days- you pretty much had to constantly maintain it by hand, with fresh oil, grease and other lubricants. For machines of that vintage, you basically can't over-oil it. My common joke about that is that unless your socks are starting to get squishy, it's not over-oiled. (That generally applies to machine tools, where excess oil is not an issue- you have to be a bit more careful with woodworking gear, of course, and make sure that, for example, your saw arbor isn't flinging spindle oil onto your workpiece.)

On the tractor thing, no, different Oliver. If you're not yet aware of it, Vintage Machinery is an excellent resource for information like that. On some machines, they even have copies of manuals available.

And finally, let's see some picture of the build process! My current turret lathe project just passed six hundred photos.

Doc.

[Jellyghost]

Thanks Doc.
I hope to publish pics of my wood tools. I have been trying to find industrial or professional quality tools from 50+ years ago. The build quality is amazing, and they can basically be repaired forever. In addition, they sell for 10% of the cost of a new quality tool.
My capacitor idea was a little hopeful. I am going to look into having a shop repair it because it's a beautiful motor. If that doesn't work, I will need a new motor.
More pics to come.

[Grendel]

If you have a motor rewind shop nearby they usually can rebuild these older motors [if needed] pretty easily if you want to keep it.

[Axel]

I am of no help whatsoever but just wanted to say I'm enjoying the vintage machinery photos and history lessons.

[DocsMachine]

I have been trying to find industrial or professional quality tools from 50+ years ago. The build quality is amazing, and they can basically be repaired forever. In addition, they sell for 10% of the cost of a new quality tool.

-Yep, yep, yep. Big fan of older tools- generally speaking, they were both built to last and built with a little 'flair' to it, you just don't get on a modern machine. Injection-molded plastic is fine for a toaster or a blender, but has no place on a machine tool. I want cast-iron handles, etched-brass ID plates, and real Timken bearings.

As for build quality, that Warner & Swasey turret lathe I'm rebuilding has amazed me several times with it's quality- places where a lesser machine might have had a bronze bushing or even just a hole in the iron, has a hardened pin and steel needle bearings. It's eighty freakin' years old, and has likely made better than a hundred thousand parts, and it's still cherry. There's a little wear on the bed, but a lot of moving parts, like the turret assembly, the cross slide and the collet closer, while they clearly show use, they have virtually no wear.

They built them to last.

My '42 Springfield, I know lived through some ham-fisted users. I've talked to several of them. And while it needed some repair, not as much as you might think. Once I'm done with it, it'll be effectively a brand-new machine.

And yeah, cost is a big factor too. Neither airsmithing nor webcomicing are exactly the stuff of Fortune 500 companies, and I have never had a lot of money to play with. Most times, it was closer to no money to play with. Ordering a new or professionally-rebuilt machine from the states just ain't gonna happen. I have to buy basically trashed machines, for near-scrap prices, and pile a lot of sweat-equity into them.


So right there with ya. And at this point, even if I was independently wealthy, I'd likely still be building old machine tools, except this time it'd be just for fun.

Doc.

[Jellyghost]

I bought the saw for $75 sight unseen. My two surprises were the motor not working and the blade was only 8 inches. It can be modified to fit a 10 inch blade by enlarging the blade opening on the table. I am making cabinets and caskets, so maybe an 8 inch blade will be enough. I don't want to hack on the original workmanship.
I brought the 100 yo motor to an electric motor shop today. The shop has a good reputation, and they charge $80 to evaluate a motor. If you go ahead with the repair, that goes towards your final bill. They just quoted me an additional 150 to rehab the motor! This gave me pause. I just sold my old table saw for this one, and I wasn't ready to drop $300+ on this project. I think I will go ahead with the repair and sell a phantom.
The only other repair needed (besides some tuning) concerns the elevation wheel, and I need some advice. The smooth part of the wheel's spindle goes through the box on the left, and the threaded part of the spindle goes through the box on the right. There were two nuts on the threads between the two boxes. The problem is that the spindle threads out of the threaded box when cranked all the way. I couldn't figure out if it is missing some stop, or if the nuts weren't in the correct spot. Maybe it's just the nuts...

[DocsMachine]

There were two nuts on the threads between the two boxes. The problem is that the spindle threads out of the threaded box when cranked all the way. I couldn't figure out if it is missing some stop, or if the nuts weren't in the correct spot. Maybe it's just the nuts...

-Hum. It's hard to determine the layout from your photos, but generally speaking, you'd think there should be some sort of stop to keep it from completely unscrewing itself. Maybe the two nuts were seated at the end of the threads- that is, the base of the smooth portion- which retained it in the 'box'.

Might be worth contacting the Vintage Machinery or OWWM folks and see about a diagram, manual or even photos of someone elses' saw. I see there's a couple of YouTube videos- I don't know what your exact machine is, but it might be worth a look through those to see if they either mention or just show in passing, the assembly in question.

Doc.

[Jellyghost]

I just figured out the stop. The saw arm hits the bottom of the table.... I am just a bumbler who likes nice old things.

[Jellyghost]

I have everything put back together with a new blade. I need to fix some vibration, but I think it will be nice once shimmed.
Two questions:
The track for the fence is not flush with the table. It is about 1/16 of an inch too high. The track is made of three metal sold metal bars. Each bar is about 3/8 of an inch wide and the biggest bar is about two inches wide. When they are bolted together, they are 4 inches long and they extend the table about an 1 1/8th. I have figured out how to take them apart, but they do not have a method of adjustment. What is the normal way to remove the 1/16 of an inch? Belt sander? filing? sanding with a long board?
If you want to paint metal and don't want to spray rustoleum, what do you use?

[DocsMachine]

What is the normal way to remove the 1/16 of an inch? Belt sander? filing? sanding with a long board?

-Well, I might be a bit biased, but I'd suggest a milling machine. The other methods will tend to make a surface that isn't terribly straight.

Also, I suggest double-checking to make sure there's not some other reason the bars are too high. Assuming those bars haven't been replaced at some point in the last hundred years, one would think they would be flush. Has anything been stuck to the bottom of the groove, or the bottom of the bars? Another possibility is the 'groove' has a radiused corner, while the bar is more square- the bars could be riding on those radiused fillets.

If you want to paint metal and don't want to spray rustoleum, what do you use?

From pretty much day one, I've used a brush-on alkyd enamel. A local hardware store carries it, and can mix it to match. The two greys I use are just off-the-shelf "machine grey" tones.

For painting, I'll use a 1" disposable brush (and keep some fine-point tweezers on hand for plucking out the occasional loose bristle ) and for larger areas, I'll use a foam 4" "detail roller", also from the hardware store. The enamel, unless it's blisteringly hot out, takes a while to cure, and "self levels" reasonably well. And really, if you're painting cast iron, unless you're willing to go to town with some fillers, you're gonna get a semi-pebbly finish anyway.

Doc.