Metadyne Havoc problems

[Timefreak17]

Looking for help with a working/non-working launcher.
running air there seems to be a leak in the trigger frame and the velocity adjuster screw.

Fires one shot, then refuses to cycle/load the next air charge. This is the time it really likes to leak air. Pull the trigger a second time, you get some air and pft sounds but nothing through the breech.

Could it be that the vaseline oil is to thick and humming up the works? Or the o-rings to soft on the velocity adjuster piston?

*Has a patched hole in trigger frame area just behind piston/spring area of velocity adjuster regulator. And has a vent hole through the Allen key hole of the velocity adj screw.

Any thoughts?
Sorry I don't have pics yet

[Flounder]

Tear it apart, clean it lube it replace the o-rings. Look at the patched area to see if the inside is tearing a o-ring on the regulator piston.

[RuleOfSines]

Not a whole lot to these things, so shouldn't be too bad to fix assume something isn't totally borked. Pictures would be really helpful, is the "patched" area a threaded hole that was filled in?

[RuleOfSines]

Here, this may be helpful:
Metadyne Havoc Instructional Movie - YouTube

Perhaps someone 'fixed' a leak by jb-welding what is supposed to be a plug..

[BrickHaus]

More lube.

They are fickle machines. It sounds to me like the cart vapve behind the trigger is the issue at a glance, but Id need more info

[Timefreak17]

Thank you all for the insights. It seems my problem was two fold.
1)The JB welded pressure relief hole needed sanding down for the 012 o-ring on the regulator piston to function smoother.
2) The 012 o-ring on the regulator piston was getting cut/marred by either a burr in the regulator housing when the piston moved or the JB welded hole intruding into the regulator housing too far.

I will be swapping to 90 buna o-rings to see if they can hold up better.

Again thank you all for the help.

[ReconSWS]

Why did they patch up the hole? Seems to run just fine with the hole open for me (minus the fact that it can't take a full 12oz without going into fault mode, but it'll take a 3/4-full 12oz just fine). What effect does this have?

[weekendballer]

I think an early run of them had a pressure relief hole slightly out of place and the would shred o rings.

[BrickHaus]

I dont think the hole is in the wrong spot, it does what they intended. If I recall, that hole was initially designed to cut the o ring in an over pressure situation to bleed air off of the chamber in an effort to prevent the havoc body from over pressurizing. They later attempted to blow a body up, and realized it takes more than a tank can output, plus by then people had been modding their havocs to block said hole.

I have an early havoc with this hole. It cut the large hpr piston o ring a few times over the years. Ive since put a urethane o ring on that spot and it seems *knocks on wood* to have held up well.

[ReconSWS]

Thx for the infos. Brickhaus I did lose only 1 o-ring ever to this, and since then, it has never chopped an o-ring, but instead it will go into a fault state (I do not know if this is intentional design), but the overpressure will cause the bolt to rotate 180 degrees rendering the thing inoperablue until complete teardown to re-orient the bolt. I don't mind this too much just gotta not use a freshly filled tank.

[Timefreak17]

The person before me who owned the havoc patched in the hole. Im assuming that it was chopping o-rings frequently enough to warrent this. Also the patch before the JB weld was a leak point for the air in the regulator piston when it moved. So I ended up repatching the hole. I did drill a relief hole into the velocity screw to compensate should anything happen, this is done on the newer versions as well.

[Timefreak17]

UPDATE- So after more Issues with the havok not cycling properly, I dove back into the regulator piston problem.
After a long debate with my-self, since I am not a machinist; I smoothed out the internal piston and body housing of the piston area.
Since I was worried about doing irreversible damage to the main body, I only used Flitzs Metal polish and a lot of time and patience polishing both.

I can say that, before I polished the internal piston area of the body and the piston; I found plenty of nicked areas and rough spots around the large o-ring on the piston and in the body in the same place the original relief hole was drilled.
This was to the point where i kept finding a small chunked piece of o-ring on the larger side of the piston; and moving the piston back and forth by hand felt rough, forced, and like i was hitting something past a certain point each time.

After a few days polishing everything and using 3000 grit on a few spots on the piston that I could get my finger nail stuck into; the movement is smoother and more gliding than before.
Now it cycles properly and I get more than one shot.

I will keep an eye on it but thought I should update being someone else may have the same issue in the future.
Thanks again for every ones input.