Multiple air tanks

[Seajay]

So I have this weird setup going on and I think it will work.

I plan to use a ~800psi ouput 13ci on my Phenom x7, which shoots 300-350 psi. I will bring with me my 77ci bottle, but this one has a 550psi output reg setup on it.
The plan is to use a remote to connect the 77ci to the 13ci when the small bottle is out of air, to stay on the field longer.

Does this work? I'll basically be shooting 550psi from the 77ci through the 13ci, acting as a big expansion chamber?

I don't think the fill valve would be an issue since I'm stepping down in pressure as I go, right?

[Shaftski]

Won't work very well if I understand what you are saying. If you plan to put remote line into fill port of the 13ci bottle that is. The 13ci bottle reg is going to see an abnormally low input pressure in that case, it's expecting 3-4.5K psi input but will only see 550psi input. It will have a high pressure spring, so final output pressure would be really low. Lower input pressures would not move the fill valve on the 13ci very well either.

[BrickHaus]

I wonder if you put a gauge port adaptor asa extender on your asa. Then ran the remote output tank do one of the gauge port. That way it wouldbasically be both outputs wprking agqinst eachother. Id think the 13k would drain down to 500 quick, then they would equalize more or less as they drained.

[Trbo323]

Yeah I forget who did it but Adobe guys were basically trying to make a "juggernaut" setup and shoot the most paint a single player could shoot without requiring help from other players, they did it using a g6r, tank on the marker and 2 tanks in remote but when they first tried it all 3 tanks were SLP tanks to hopefully help the g6r but what they found was the 2 in remote would not fill the tank on the marker, they switched out the 2 remote tanks for SHP tanks and the system worked

I'm trying to find the article but can't at the moment, I want to say he shot line 30 something pods. It's pretty nuts

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[djeclypse]

Also don't forget, except for the Powerhouse reg which has a separate air path for filling, the rest of the tank regs on the market use the same path for filling and feeding out into the marker. Therefore you'd be trying to fight against the stream to fill the attached tank while it is feeding the marker. I'm not expert but that seems like a difficult task.

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[Ecapnation]

Not going to work....

Plus.... Two different our puts will give you weird velocity issues

[Trbo323]

Not going to work....

Plus.... Two different our puts will give you weird velocity issues

Ummm...no

Output pressure will be fixed because of the 13ci tank, and even if it's not the phenom has it's own regulator to step down the pressure from whatever the input is

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[Ecapnation]

I'm confused then....

You're trying to fill the 13ci from the 77?

[Shaftski]

Pressure might be OK but overall system air flow would suck. I'd expect to see shootdown.

[Seajay]

Some clarifications.. I'll only connect the 77ci to the 13ci when I use it all up.

13ci is empty
Connect the 77ci to the 13 ci fill port
13ci connected to the Phenom ASA.

77ci is a Ninja Pro 2 reg.

77ci 550psi -> 13ci 0psi -> (let's say) 350psi operation pressure

The fill port on the 13ci is just a plunger, no spring, output pressure is what seals it normally.
The 13ci reg is a FS one, I don't actually know what reg it uses. stock ~800 psi.

I have the option to steal some shim from another Ninja tank I have and try to increase output pressure on the 77ci if necessary.

[Handy]

I have done something similar before while trying to test out a tank regulator. The tank being filled, even when smaller usually only got up to 1000psi or so. In hindsight it was probably only up to the output pressure of the giving tank. I think a SHP regulator on the 77ci would probably get the best results as stated above.

[Seajay]

Ok but just for additional clarity, I'm not filling the 13ci, I'm just using it as a passthrough to the 77ci.
The 13ci is acting as my stock.

[Grendel]

Does your Phenom work fine off the 77 cuin bottle to begin with and the current on gun regulator setting? If yes to that question theoretically it will work but at a pressure of 550psi minus the pressure needed to overcome the fill nipple check valve, so maybe lets for argument say 25 psi so at 525psi in your 13 cuin bottle. If your Phenom will work normally at around 525 psi down to your 350 psi marker operating pressure then yes it will work but not efficiently (you are now using 3 separate regulators now plus the delta in pressure to overcome the fill nipple check valve. Kind of a cluggy setup though and I'd just run it off the 77 cuin bottle and take out the complexity. The two bottles will eventually build an equilibrium with a delta between the bottles of what ever pressure it takes to override the check valve and will work their way down in pressure until your on gun regulator no longer can do its job.

[MrBarraclough]

This seems to be a question of what the regulator on the 13ci bottle will do with 550psi input pressure. That reg is sprung to step pressures of up to 3000psi down to ~800psi. But there's some minimum threshold pressure it needs to see on the tank side before anything passes through; it won't necessarily pass everything from 0 up to 800. Tank regs don't usually let you shoot all the way down to ambient atmospheric pressure: there will come a point before that at which the tank pressure cannot overcome the springs in the reg. The output range has both an upper and a lower bound. I have no idea how wide the range might be and how much it may vary from one brand of regulator to another. How far down have you been able to shoot the 13ci tank previously? (not that tank gauges are especially precise, but it should give a rough idea)

[Edit: Ignore the above. Trbo323 is correct. For some silly reason I was thinking of regs having springs in both directions but with unbalanced tension. I wish the text editor had a strikeout option.]

djeclypse makes a very good point: Will the reg on the 13ci even output air at all while it is receiving pressure via its fill nipple? I imagine that is a question of internal geometry, specifically, whether the piston from the fill nipple cuts off (or severely reduces) flow to the regulator when it is being pushed in by input pressure. Using a shared passage should not by itself be a problem, so long as the fill nipple piston isn't sitting someplace through which air needs to flow.

[Seajay]

I wish I had full air to test this at home with, which is why I'm being so chatty

But, I did put a little air into my 77ci using my 3k hand pump. I just wanted to see if it would work conceptually at all. The answer is yes, but I'm not sure to the effectiveness.
I think you are right that the 800psi output reg could be an issue with a 550psi fill from the 77ci.

The phenom was able to dry fire reliably from some amount of air from the 77ci to the 0 13ci. It did take a second for the 13ci to equalize with the 77ci, and I could hear it. Once pressurized the Phenom cycled fine. I don't know what the output PSI is, I can test that later, but it must be at least 550spi for the initial attempts (I'm assuming).

The 13ci reg can shoot to empty, but I don't know if that fall off means less than 800 psi output.

Super interesting observations, I hope to have some feedback soon.

[Trbo323]

This seems to be a question of what the regulator on the 13ci bottle will do with 550psi input pressure. That reg is sprung to step pressures of up to 3000psi down to ~800psi. But there's some minimum threshold pressure it needs to see on the tank side before anything passes through; it won't necessarily pass everything from 0 up to 800. Tank regs don't usually let you shoot all the way down to ambient atmospheric pressure: there will come a point before that at which the tank pressure cannot overcome the springs in the reg.

Unless I'm wildly miss-interpreting what you mean here, this is wrong. Reg springs are there to open up the regulator not close it. Regulators work by using the output pressure to close the regulator, when that pressure dips (because you shot the marker) the spring then assists in opening up the reg to allow more pressure through. Which then brings the pressure back up and closes the regulator off again.

You can take a tank all the way down to atmospheric pressure, can you shoot it that low? No, the marker won't cycle but that doesn't mean the tank won't output air, pull it off and push the pin valve if you don't believe me.

See the animation below, this is the basic design of the vast vast majority of tank regs out there.

This should work, the only problem I think you might run into is a flow rate issue because flowing air through 3 regs and a remote line is a lot of turns and bends and seals. This weekend if I get a minute I can probably test this for you. I have 2 remote lines and 3 tanks, if one of my tanks is empty I can chain the whole thing together and put a marker on the other end. Heck, I have a crossover, that's the same valve train as the phenom

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[MrBarraclough]

Thanks for the correction.

[Seajay]

Sweet! Well I won't be blasting to a rate that would require a high recharge rate, so as long as semi works fine that's all I care about

[Trbo323]

Gaah! I hate comments, I use a app to view the forum and it doesn't display comments. It shows me there are 18 replies to a thread but I can only see the 14 of them that are posts. I didn't even realize you guys replied until this morning.



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