AA Armageddon Help

[Advanced]

I'm rebuilding my new (to me) Armageddon. I bought all the orings, reg seat, etc.

The seal carrier(the stubby, hollow metal cylinder) has an inner and outer oring. I bought 016-70 for both and they fit ok, but when inserted over the piston there seems to be no friction whatsoever.

What is the correct oring size and durometer of these?

[Advanced]

Bueller?

[Roger7pball]

I rebuilt mine a while ago but that seems to be the right size. I may have put 90 durometer in there tho but can’t remember. Here’s my notes from when I did it…screenshot of post from Automag.org and my oring order list. Sorry can’t be of more help.

[Advanced]

Hi,

Thanks I took a screen shot of that same automag.org post and made my parts lost as well.

In your parts order--the 017-90 orings, what are those for? The reason I ask is that I saw a post in that same thread about the 017 being the outer seal oring.

[Roger7pball]

It was a while ago and all I did was remove the old orings, put them on my oring size chart, and replace them. Yeah that post mentioning 017 must have led me to order them as well. I like to use 90 durometer where possible in regulators but I’m no specialist.

[MrKittyCatMeowFace]

It was a while ago and all I did was remove the old orings, put them on my oring size chart, and replace them. Yeah that post mentioning 017 must have led me to order them as well. I like to use 90 durometer where possible in regulators but I’m no specialist.

Thanks for the help. .

[Advanced]

Any chance if you recall the piston being very smooth, but not wobbly, inside the seal carrier with the 016? Mine is very easy to slide, not loose enough to wiggle though. I just didn't know if it should have even a little friction.

[Roger7pball]

Any chance if you recall the piston being very smooth, but not wobbly, inside the seal carrier with the 016? Mine is very easy to slide, not loose enough to wiggle though. I just didn't know if it should have even a little friction.

I don’t recall any wobble. If I get a chance tonight/tomorrow I’ll pull mine apart and stick that ring on the chart again.

[Roger7pball]

Advanced sorry for the delay, finally got a break from house projects. Yes very smooth with no wobble. Checked the oring size and I used a 017 90D for sure inside the carrier. Put it back together and still regulates perfectly fine with fast recharge.

[Advanced]

Advanced sorry for the delay, finally got a break from house projects. Yes very smooth with no wobble. Checked the oring size and I used a 017 90D for sure inside the carrier. Put it back together and still regulates perfectly fine with fast recharge.

Thanks for checking and disassembling all that!

Just confirming that is the ring on the inside of the seal carrier, not the outside ring?

[Roger7pball]

Yep, inside the carrier.

[Advanced]

I got some orings in today, the 017s are definitely too tight to reinstall the seal carrier into the housing, and inside is too big to fit.

I got both 70 and 90 durometer, but installed the 016-90 into the reg for durability.

[Roger7pball]

I got some orings in today, the 017s are definitely too tight to reinstall the seal carrier into the housing, and inside is too big to fit.

I got both 70 and 90 durometer, but installed the 016-90 into the reg for durability.

Hmm, I wonder if they slightly changed design halfway through manufacturing the Armageddon. Either way 90D seems like a good idea. Here's from a couple of their other designs and they use 90 durometer for all the rings. (This might be a good depository for Air America info for individuals in the future).

[Dusty Bottoms]

Just a note, but Air America used 90 duro Polyurethane, not 90 duro Buna, orings. They are not the same, and buna wears out sooner, especially in a regulator that can crank out 1100psi. I just replaced the two orings on the adjustment strut with the correct poly ones because my RT mag was acting sluggish for no discernible reason. Everything in my RT Valve was good to go so that left the Armageddon. I found that the buna orings on that adjustment strut had worn out considerably with tiny little shreds on the surface of the buna strut orings. Now these correct poly orings should last much longer, even though they were a real treat to put on! My RT aired up and cycled fine again with no problems afterwards.

[Roger7pball]

I’m an electrical guy so I’m not educated in material compare, but this article says Buna holds up to wear better when when compared to polyurethane.

https://www.marcorubber.com/Buna-N-vs-Polyurethane/material-type/14v19

Not questioning your experiences at all, just willing to learn.

[Advanced]

Just a note, but Air America used 90 duro Polyurethane, not 90 duro Buna, orings. They are not the same, and buna wears out sooner, especially in a regulator that can crank out 1100psi. I just replaced the two orings on the adjustment strut with the correct poly ones because my RT mag was acting sluggish for no discernible reason. Everything in my RT Valve was good to go so that left the Armageddon. I found that the buna orings on that adjustment strut had worn out considerably with tiny little shreds on the surface of the buna strut orings. Now these correct poly orings should last much longer, even though they were a real treat to put on! My RT aired up and cycled fine again with no problems afterwards.

I actually found the piston easy to install the 006-90 urethane orings. I put them on a paper towel, then I just pushed down hard and wiggled the flat end and they just pop right over, no tool needed.

Did you also use 016-90 urethane on your seal carrier? The post from automag.org that some of us mentioned had a parts list with 70 hardness for those. I'm not inclined to stick
with the 90.

For the bottle threads, in using a 112-70, my tank has the beveled top, not straight down threads.

[Dusty Bottoms]

I’m an electrical guy so I’m not educated in material compare, but this article says Buna holds up to wear better when when compared to polyurethane.

https://www.marcorubber.com/Buna-N-v...ial-type/14v19

Not questioning your experiences at all, just willing to learn.

Feel free to question me! I read what you linked, but all I can say is that this company never designed or produced a paintball regulator or marker design, so their opinion on which material holds up better to 'wear' , in a paintball context, means little without that background. I'm no engineer, but Air America originally used Polyurethane orings for the Armageddon regulator, as well as their other designs. AGD also did the same thing for the Automag valve for the entire history of the design and it's production up until now. Buna orings were not recommended, nor used by those respective companies in their products, and Dan Colby and Tom Kaye are pretty smart guys with years of actual experience and testing to inform their choices in oring materials. Both the Armageddon reg and the Automag Valve design are rated to very high pressure, so it makes since they would use a stiffer material for their seals than buna. Can you use buna in an Armageddon, or even some areas of an Automag, sure, but for any moving parts/high stress areas you would be better off using the factory spec oring material. The 90 duro buna orings on the adjustment strut of my
'Geddon lasted a few cases, spread out over the coarse of over a year, so not too bad. However, they did start to shred in a way that I haven't seen stiffer Polyurethane orings do before. I expect to get longer life out of these new factory spec poly orings.

Did you also use 016-90 urethane on your seal carrier? The post from automag.org that some of us mentioned had a parts list with 70 hardness for those. I'm not inclined to stick
with the 90.

I did use 90 duro, but I wouldn't be surprised if 70 would work for that particular area on the seal carrier.

[Roger7pball]

Makes sense. Next time my AA regs are ready for a rebuild I’ll look to change to urethane.