Dual 12-Gram Adapter?

[procarbie]

So maybe I’m just dumb, but I just found out these things exist? If I’m understanding correctly, it’s essentially a tube that you load two 12 grams into, and when you tighten the knob on the back it pierces both at the same time?

Is there a reason nobody (at least from what I’ve seen) seems to use these for paintball? Or any serious downsides to them (other than ofc not being stock class legal)? The fact that I’ve never seen anyone using one at the field makes me a little nervous, but they do seem to be popular in the airgun community.

If they’re actually solid pieces of gear, I can definitely think of some cool applications for them. They’re thinner than any tank, so for a light, compact marker that you want a little more capacity than a standard 12ey can offer, they seem pretty ideal. And according to the video I just watched about one, you don’t need to use two at a time either—you can also just load in an unused one and put a used one behind it if you only want one.

So...anyone have any experience with these? Are they...safe? Would I be dumb to put one on a marker?

I’m honestly pretty pumped to have just made this discovery, but also I’m fully ready for you guys to bring me back to reality if they do indeed suck. But I’m hoping they’re awesome, because they seem kinda perfect for this compact SMG-shaped pistol build that I’m working on.

So what say you MCB? Yay or nay?

[Ecapnation]

They have existed in some form for years....

I think really people don't use them because the pros are not worth the cons.

[procarbie]

They have existed in some form for years....

I think really people don't use them because the pros are not worth the cons.

Makes sense that they aren’t a new thing, I thought it was strange that I’d never seen them until now since they don’t seem to involve any groundbreaking tech.

What would you say the cons are, besides size/weight? Are they less reliable than say a standard bucket changer?

Something else I find appealing about them is that I often go play outlaw ball at friend’s properties deep in the woods—and often I’m the one supplying the gear, and I don’t always have time to stop to get tanks filled. But I always tend to keep a bevy of 12 grams with me.

Something like this should in theory allow most markers to last roughly the duration of one game (these games are always limited paint anyway), and then I can worry about changing out the 12 grams afterwards if need be, so that someone who is playing for the first time doesn’t have to worry about it.

I also know that it’s simply becoming rarer for fields to continue to fill CO2 these days, and I wonder if soon it will be harder for me to find places that want to fill my 4oz.

On the one hand I can definitely see how they objectively aren’t better than say a 13/3000, but I think for what I’m looking for they might be great. That is assuming they’re at least remotely reliable and aren’t hunks of junk, which I’m not sure that they aren’t.

[procarbie]

In doing a little more research I found this size comparison which seems to show that they’re roughly double the length of a standard bucket changer, and a little wider. So I imagine they feel like a really thin (and probably a bit heavier) 13/3000 on a marker?

I will say that I like that there’s plenty of space to grab on the body of them with your hand when unthreading the end cap, seems to get around that issue that bucket changers sometimes have of wanting to unthread fully from the ASA when you go to change a 12gram.

[Grendel]

Speed is really the biggest con to them. They are just a way bigger pain in the a$$ to change cartridges and that only gets worse when under stress. Add on top of that the ergonomic limitations just not practical.

[Ecapnation]

And there is all of my cons

[Chuck E Ducky]

Why 2x when you can run 3x….

I will get about 120 shots on a 60*-70* day out of this before I have to change it out. It’s great for outlaw play.

The biggest issue with running multiple 12g is the change out. It takes forever and it don’t make sense to top it off. Let’s say you play a game only shoot 25 shots. You then have to dump a perfectly good 12g for tactical purposes or run on the single till it empty then change out on the field. Your sitting there a long time fumbling with the 12gs getting the marker back up and running. It’s a disadvantage over dumping a single bucket. Or tactical change out before a game. It’s not that it can’t be worked around but it’s not an advantage over a single 12g bucket especially with practice.

What it’s great for is playing like you have bulk Co2 without the need for the big storage tank or the rental fee on bulk tanks.

[Trbo323]

Why 3 when you can have 7 and only a half second in between?

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[Grendel]

You get 7? (6+1 I assume) I always had a little issue with putting 6 in the magazine always thought I was over compressing the spring [i.e. felt a little too stiff on that last cartridge]. I usually only kept 5 in the magazine on the field, Load 6 cycle top one in and leave 5 in the magazine.

[Hp_lovecraft]

They still exist for air rifles, as an replacement for 88gram tanks. But as said above, unless the 2 12grams are the most you might use in a game, then it will probably end up being a hassle. Maybe a better idea would be 2 seperate 12gram changers, mounted side-by-side, with a ball valve, allowing them to be switched. ie run the left side, while changing the right, and vice versa.

I do remember in the early 90s, you could get "might max" and "mini max" disposable tanks. I think they were 1oz and 2oz. The idea being that for a pump, those might be enough to last a game. and I guess that made since before semi autos became widespread

[procarbie]

Why 2x when you can run 3x….

I will get about 120 shots on a 60*-70* day out of this before I have to change it out. It’s great for outlaw play.

The biggest issue with running multiple 12g is the change out. It takes forever and it don’t make sense to top it off. Let’s say you play a game only shoot 25 shots. You then have to dump a perfectly good 12g for tactical purposes or run on the single till it empty then change out on the field. Your sitting there a long time fumbling with the 12gs getting the marker back up and running. It’s a disadvantage over dumping a single bucket. Or tactical change out before a game. It’s not that it can’t be worked around but it’s not an advantage over a single 12g bucket especially with practice.

What it’s great for is playing like you have bulk Co2 without the need for the big storage tank or the rental fee on bulk tanks.

I hear ya on the wasting a 12 gram if you change before a game, that was something I was thinking about too. And I can see how the changer you’ve got on your Phantom does look like it would take a moment to refill.

I guess what I’m not understanding is how it would really take a very long time to refill the tubular ones though? I mean isn’t it just a big bucket changer that you plop an extra 12 gram into? I just can’t see it taking drastically longer since the motion is essentially the same—unscrew the end, dump the contents, load in the fresh one (or two in this case).

I guess you don’t have the advantage of the whole bucket coming off with the spent 12 gram, that makes it easy to just dump it into a pouch and grab another, but still—with practice I just can’t see how this would take longer than a few seconds or so?

And the thing is, 60-70 shots really is the ceiling for me in a game where I’m playing pistol or stock class. That’s really what appeals to me about them, is getting rid of that mid-game change. Although I get that after the first game then it becomes when you’re going to run out, but also I’d be ok walking into a game knowing I’ve got at least one full 12 gram in there, esp now that that would be the baseline instead of the maximum. I think if I had spent more than 3/4 of the contents I might vent it and change it out between games but anything up to around one half I reckon I’d leave in.

So I dunno, I definitely hear what you guys are saying and thank you for showing me why they aren’t more common. All that you’ve said makes total sense. I just think in the case of my play style the pros may outweigh the cons?

Or maybe I’ll junk the thing in a week. If I do, I promise to return to this thread to say “Well MCB, you were right...” hahaha

[Chuck E Ducky]

With practice it would work just fine I’m sure. I wonder if you can print a stock piece for the knob use it off a bottom line like a stock. Spin the T stock end and drop two in spin it back on. It could definitely work. But at the same time a well practiced Stock Class player can crack and load a 12g very quickly with a lil practice. If your not concerned about SC compliance you could add a check valve and have one in the pipe on a change out. I can change out a 12g almost just as quick as that 6pack above with my ICD lever changer and still stay within what most SC game consider compliant.

I wasn’t trying to rain on your parade just giving some thought int why it’s not all that common. 12g play really isn’t all that common to begin with so that may play a part as well.

Im definitely interested in seeing what you come up with and how it works out for you. If you end up developing a stock like knob that works well I will be the first in line to try it out.

[procarbie]

With practice it would work just fine I’m sure. I wonder if you can print a stock piece for the knob use it off a bottom line like a stock. Spin the T stock end and drop two in spin it back on. It could definitely work. But at the same time a well practiced Stock Class player can crack and load a 12g very quickly with a lil practice. If your not concerned about SC compliance you could add a check valve and have one in the pipe on a change out. I can change out a 12g almost just as quick as that 6pack above with my ICD lever changer and still stay within what most SC game consider compliant.

I wasn’t trying to rain on your parade just giving some thought int why it’s not all that common. 12g play really isn’t all that common to begin with so that may play a part as well.

Im definitely interested in seeing what you come up with and how it works out for you. If you end up developing a stock like knob that works well I will be the first in line to try it out.

Thanks man! And honestly sometimes my ideas get so ridiculous I think I need good folks like y’all to help bring me back to reality haha. It’s all super appreciated!

Another idea I was just kicking around to cut down on change out time would be to reload the 12 grams from a tube as though they were paintballs. You put two 12 grams end to end in a 10 round tube, and then when you need to change you unscrew the cap on the changer, dump the spent 12’s into a pouch, and then pour the new 12’s in from the tube as though you’re refilling a stock class feed. Screw the cap back in and you’re ready to roll.

I just tried this out with two 12 grams and a 10 round tube, and they fit perfectly into the tube, lengthwise. Width is a problem. The tubes I have taper a bit at the bottom, and the bottom 12 gram got stuck in it and was tough to get out. But I figure with a hairdryer and a dowel I could probably deform a few tubes enough that the 12’s would just fall right out, and I’d probably only carry like one or two refills max in a game.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Might find a cigar tube that fits two 12g

[procarbie]

Might find a cigar tube that fits two 12g

Good call! Something I’m also kinda excited about is that it opens up some new mounting options that wouldn’t really be feasible with a tank. For example because only the end cap threads out, I should in theory be able to affix it with some ring mounts to the side of a marker instead of mounting it as a bottomline. If I’m able to eek out a setup that uses one practically I’ll definitely post it somewhere here. Since the marker I’m planning this for isn’t my main semi or my main pump, I think this should complement it nicely as a kinda “sunday driver” marker—something to use when I either find myself playing outlaw, or against a group of renters at the field. That being said this will kinda sorta be like the third or fourth such marker I own that fits into that category but hey, who around here would say that’s a problem haha.

Really appreciate everyone who weighed in on this thread. Thanks all!

[ChoSanJuan]

It's in the new Umarex HDX68

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRVvidwE7ZU

TBH, the whole thing seems like a kludge-fest. The whole stock thing is fiddly and what's with this loader tool you keep in the grip? That's getting lost out in a wooded area. LOL

[Trbo323]

It's in the new Umarex HDX68

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRVvidwE7ZU

TBH, the whole thing seems like a kludge-fest. The whole stock thing is fiddly and what's with this loader tool you keep in the grip? That's getting lost out in a wooded area. LOL

You've got to be kidding me umarex.....

It's like they were eager to clock out on Friday and went, ehhhhh, just include some tools, make the stock removable and call it a week

Umarex kind of infuriates me, they have some decent ideas and I think are aimed at a portion of the paintball market that doesn't get much attention but then just absolutely drops the ball on designing good stuff. It's like they never go out to the field to figure out some of these things are a bad idea.

Can you imagine trying to load this shotgun in the middle of the woods? What if you need paint and co2? You're seriously going to be sitting there for 2 minutes, taking your marker apart just to reload

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