Automag off 12g

[Theeightiesman]

I’m looking for some wisdom here. I’m trying to put together a couple of small pistol style automags with some stuff in my parts bin. Can I run a classic valve or a minimag off a 12g bucket changer?

[NONOBLITUS]

You sure can , ran a 12 gram vertical changer in a Mag many times.

[scottieb]

Yes you can. To keep a tight setup you can run an ASA off the valve with a fitting for the 12g changer. Horizontal adapters are out there but are scarce. And you can also fit a duckbill pointed forward for the 12g changer.

[Toestr]

I read a post on AO where a guy did a bunch of stuff to improve 12g efficiency. He opened up an older valve with a threaded in powertube and devolumized the dump chamber with and also added orings to the bolt and powertube. Probably some other stuff I'm forgetting too. He was getting 30-40 shots iirc.

For air routing I think your best options are either horizontal under the barrel (difficult to find horizontal ASAs), Hawaiian style (this will be the easiest) or side saddle as mentioned. For side saddle you could use an Automag VASA or a remote line ASA with a steel hydraulic 1/8nptm to 1/8nptm nipple running off the side of the valve. I highly recommend the steel nipple because a brass one would have a better chance of getting bent or shearing off if you take a tumble.

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[NONOBLITUS]

Just food for thought. Back when I shot Mags exclusively, they are not a fan of liquid CO2. The reason for the back bottle asa angled. Anti siphon tanks for horizontal fed air was the go to. I guess the main reason I ran a 12 gram changer vertical.

[Theeightiesman]

[Theeightiesman]

That’s what I have so far, thanks for all the responses. Would you suggest a different hose and fittings set up.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Hard line or braided is best. The on off pressure of the 12g play can give you issues with macro. Expect about 20 shots without mods.

[Theeightiesman]

Thank you for all the help!

[Spider!]

It helps to have a pinhole size restriction somewhere at the vasa. It helps force the co2 into gas. You can also replace the macro tube with small brass hard-line in little macro fittings.

For any setup, it comes down to rate of fire. The stainless in classic valves have less than 1/10 the heat transfer rate of a brass marker. It helps to condition the co2 as much as possible before it goes into the valve.

[Riot]

I get about 15 good shots but push it to about 18 funsies.

[Theeightiesman]

This is fantastic! Where can I get a stick feed like that?

[Pyrate Jim]

I actually have two I run on 12g's.
The first is a Sydarm. The other is a build I put together on a Lukes stock-class body, with an AGD pump kit and Line SI lever lever changer "island style".
Both are a level 7 valve and have no trouble on a 12g, but the platform itself is a bit of a gas hog so don't expect more than 18-20 shots on a single 12g.

[cougar20th]

I built Riots and my VSC Pumpmags. Both are devolumized. Both get 12-15 good shots. After that velocity drop. Of course weather does play a slight bit into that.

About the only thing I can think of that would help efficiency would be mounting the 12 hram holder directly to the valve inlet. As there would be less wasted CO2.

Either way I swap 12ies when I reload generally.

[Pyrate Jim]

The Sydarm goes directly to the valve, and a sidecar mounted changer can do pretty much the same thing.

[superman]

I think i was up to 28 shots on a devolumized classic mag setup. you really need to shoot thick shell paint though as it is a bit more harsh on paint.

[Spider!]

Brokeass_baller, keep in mind a few things; Bud and Tom were usually looking at their own markers, and control bore is not equal to optimal barrel length. The extra noise from short barrels says you are throwing away energy, and the suction on a "suction timed" cocker is from the barrel being too long and using the ball to suck air into the feedneck. The control bore helps to manage bore to paint diameter effects, while the remainder of the barrel helps to reduce turbulence at the muzzle. A secondary bore reduces friction and allows the use of the lower pressure gas expansion.

All of that is only worthwhile when you are chasing that last few balls out of a 12g, or the last few hundred out of an HPA tank..

[k_obeastly]

Spider! Considering you can check for "suction timing" while firing with out paint, unless I am misunderstanding your explanation, that doesn't work that way.

[Brokeass_baller]

I always assumed they were speaking about rate of expansion vs acceleration, strictly. CO2 has more potential energy, being a liquid/vapor, so it is able to accelerate the ball to velocity at a faster rate.