HPA tank problem with Diablo Pump

[ekloot]

Hi, I have another issue I need help with regarding my Diablo Pump. With my old CO2 tank, it holds air and pumps and fires properly every time...just finished trying it in the basement. However, I also got a new HPA 15ci tank with a Ninja regulator, but with the new tank the gun will shoot one shot and then won't cock and be able to shoot a second shot...unless I take the tank off and put it back on. When I take the new tank off, I don't hear any air noise either, as if it wasn't connected...but it must have connected since it'll cock once and shoot once. Is the pin on the new tank possibly not getting depressed enough by the little Allen key set screw in the ASA? I wasn't sure if that little set screw in the ASA is supposed to be adjusted at all or not or if that is even the issue. I attached a couple pictures...one showing the back of the ASA on my gun with the little set screw pin, and the other showing the difference between the pin on my new HPA tank and my CO2 tank. Any help is much appreciated. This seems to be my last obstacle getting this old gun completely up and running.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Try backing the tank off the ASA 1/4 turn. It may be choking the valve when it’s bottomed out.

[ekloot]

I just ran downstairs and tried that after seeing your response, but that didn't seem to fix the issue unfortunately. I tried not quite tightening the tank all the way but then it didn't air up. I tried also tightening it all the way and then backing it off a bit, but no luck. Plugged the CO2 tank in and still that one works perfectly fine.

[iamthelazerviking]

Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but is the output on the Ninja reg lower than 850 psi?

[ekloot]

Yeah, that's what I'm wondering as well. The regulator was supposed to come set at 800psi which I read was supposed to be fine for these guns, but now I'm beginning to wonder if it wasn't set right at the factory or something.

[Chuck E Ducky]

That would be my next guess. It almost sounds like it’s getting to much pressure because it fires one shot. You happen to have a reg tester you can check the output?

For CO2 markers you want 800-850.

Any chance you got another HPA tank?

[Trbo323]

If you have a remote line kicking around, connect the hpa to it and then into the marker. If it fires more than a few times your problem is the ASA . If it only fires once or twice, problem is the tank

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[ekloot]

I messed with it a bunch more later last night. I don't think it's too much pressure...one thing I noticed is that after a shot or two the tank comes a little loose and then I lose all pressure. But if I hold the tank so it doesn't move then I can get more shots but randomly it won't cock because the powertube seems to barely be getting held forward by the pressure and will bounce backwards so the hammer won't lock onto the bolt. But if I keep the tank held tight, then randomly sometimes the powertube will stay forward enough for the hammer to be able to engage but sometimes it'll bounce backwards when I cock the gun and the hammer won't engage. A couple times I even heard air leak when I pulled the pump arm back and the hammer pushed on the powertube. With the CO2 tank that doesn't happen and everything engages fine with no leak and the powertube doesn't bounce or move until I fire the gun. Unfortunately I don't have another HPA tank to try. The only other tank is the CO2 one. I don't have a remote line either. I emailed ansgear where I got the new tank to find out if it really was set to 800 psi. I might try to go to a paintball store later in the week as well and see if they have a HPA tank I can plug in and try...or if they have a pressure tester because I don't have one yet.

[Trbo323]

I would adjust that pin in the ASA out a bit.

Low pressure could still be your problem but I think you are seeing a very low flow rate and that's what's really doing it.

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[Grendel]

When moving a Nelson clone marker from CO2 -> HPA you have to remember two basic things

1. HPA regulator output pressure should be at least 800 psi and most likely even higher then 850 psi.
2. CO2 gas has a higher density (ρ = 1.98 kg·m^-3) then Air (ρ = 1.29 kg·m^-3) so you have ~65% of the mass per volume at velocity when using HPA. So HPA imparts less energy onto the ball for the same valve train (no changes). This may require a lighter valve spring or combination of hammer and valve spring to increase the dwell on your valve to get the same velocity. This is why there are many proponents of CO2 for paintball. There are pros and cons to both and usually with a little bit of spring tweaking or pressure regulation changes you can get either to work.

Oh and given your description of the behavior "...gun will shoot one shot and then won't cock and be able to shoot a second shot..." I suspect that your ASA pin needs to come out a little more. It is most likely that you actuating pin is just barely opening your pin valve on insertion of the bottle in the ASA and you get a "squirt" of Air into your ASA but it is not depressed enough to have the valve open in general (2nd shot). If you want to test if this is an issue before changing the ASA pin take a straight edge and place over the Valve on both bottles and measure the gap between the straight edge and the Regulator Pin and I expect there will be a larger gap on the HPA regulator.

[ekloot]

Thank you for the thorough description. Everyone has been so helpful here and also with other questions I've had so I've learned quite a lot from here. One of the last things I did try last night was to back the ASA pin out a decent amount but it didn't help unfortunately. The behavior stayed the same. I did get it to shoot more than one shot, sometimes several in a row, by holding the tank so it doesn't keep coming loose...but then about every 3 or 4 pumps it randomly won't engage the hammer properly even though it all is still pressurized. I wish I had a tester for the tank/regulator. I may have to find one to purchase in order to troubleshoot this. I will take a straight edge and check the pin distance as you suggested when I get home though.

[Brokeass_baller]

Take a picture of your internals. I wonder if the bolt or sear are worn down, causing inconsistent cocking. Especially since you say it's pressurized.

[ekloot]

I will take a picture of that stuff when I get home. The bolt has a little wear that is worse on one side but I didnt think it was too bad but I could be wrong...plus I can rotate it to use the side that doesn't have much wear. My guess so far was that wasn't the issue though since it cocks perfectly and consistently with the CO2 tank.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Maybe a missing valve spring?

Check that the cup seal is on the power tube tight as well. While you got it apart.

[Trbo323]

I wish I had a tester for the tank/regulator. I may have to find one to purchase in order to troubleshoot this.

If you have a gauge that's in the proper pressure range and an unused ASA kicking around you can make one.

Preferably an on/off bleed asa but you can use any

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