Flow reducer to give better fills on HPA?

[SR_matt]

I finally got back out to play this past weekend and I noticed a few things. First it feels like fill stations fill a lot faster that I remember in the 00s. A such it seems like tanks get hotter and thus I got more pressure drop than I remember after the tank cooled off (filled at 4200 and cooled to 3500).

So I had a random thought and while I understand pneumatics decently well I don’t know thermodynamics very well so this idea may not be viable. Would you be able to restrict the flow going into a tank with some sort of restrictor (be it a lower flow full nipple, or something inline with a very small orifice) that slows the fill down just a bit and reduces the heat build up in the tank, thus giving you a truer fill?

Of course if you made something that only had a .01” orifice you could accomplish this but it would take a rather long time to fill. If you made it just to slow the fill down to say 20-30 seconds from the sub 5 second fills would it do enough? Or am I just idealizing the “old days” and remembering better fills than we really got? (Granted some of it may be that I was used to filling my own tanks so I could fill, go do something and then come back to top off and not be bugging field staff to fill for me).

[Grendel]

Yes, filling a tank by restricting flow will yield cooler fills with less pressure drop once the bottle cools off. That is why most fill valves can be throttled so you can control your fill rate. putting an orifice in-line with the fill hose will help to reduce fill rate as well. There is math involved to figure out a good compromise size in orifice to give reasonable fill rates without slam filling your bottle. I just throttle the fill valve to accomplish this when I'm in control of my bottles fill.

[SR_matt]

Ok I thought I wasn’t totally crazy. Guess I need to go reteach myself poiseuille's equation or maybe finally slam my head against a wall with navier stokes haha.

Yeah most of my previous play was at fields I either worked at and could fill my tanks or just self fill. Having to have a kid half my age fill my tank and struggle to get the hose in every time was a little frustrating but I also get not wanting players to randomly fill.

I may have to whip up a little adapter with a QD and a little reducer stuffed in it I can put on the bottle when I have to get field staff to fill.

[SR_matt]

Hmmm maybe just buying one of the filters the PCP air rifle guys use may suffice. For 25 bucks that may be a worthwhile gamble and it would help with any dirty fills.

[Toestr]

Don't go with the Chinese foam 'cigarette filters'. Just a grenade waiting to happen. I think AKA and/or PTP make a sintered brass filter with 1/8NPT on either end. Just confirm those are properly rated.

[SR_matt]

Very good point. I am a safety freak so if the listing I see doesn’t have a working pressure rating or a spec sheet for it I move on.

Edit: just found the AKA one so now just need to find rated QDs https://akapaintball.com/index.php?p...uardian-filter

[Trbo323]

O


I may have to whip up a little adapter with a QD and a little reducer stuffed in it I can put on the bottle when I have to get field staff to fill.

Why?

Just get it filled let it cool down and come back for a top off otherwise the field is going to be wondering what is wrong with your tank.

If I was a field owner I would be saying a big hell no to anybody attaching something I didn't approve between my fill station and their tank

Also why bother? Are you getting into situations where you are running out of air? If so I doubt an extra 400psi will do much, it's fine to look at a larger tank

Also realize that you are taking your pressure readings on a tank gauge which are not the most reliable. They are more to give you a general idea over get precise readings.

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[Ecapnation]

Push button fill stations are off or on....

Lever type you can kinda control flow rate.

But yeah any field owner would likely not want to assume liability for anything between whip line on fill stations and tank.

[TF_Aloha]

Why?

Just get it filled let it cool down and come back for a top off otherwise the field is going to be wondering what is wrong with your tank.

...

Also why bother? Are you getting into situations where you are running out of air? If so I doubt an extra 400psi will do much, it's fine to look at a larger tank

I have a feeling that SR_matt is in the same type of situation as I am in with the fields in Orlando. Rental heavy places don't let you fill your own tank, but, since they primarily care about rental customers who all go on break together, they're never good about quickly and properly filling a tank. You don't "just get it filled" at a Chuck-E-Cheese place like that, you have to get in a gaggle of sweaty renters and try to get the attention of a slack-jawed teenager who is practicing their best "peripheral vision doesn't exist" for a future job bartending at clubs that specialize in sugary drinks that mask the taste of Rohypnol. After enduring the initial ordeal to get a hot 2900 psi fill in your 4500 tank, going through it again a few minutes later just to get topped off doesn't really sound appealing.

When I tried to get back into speedball a couple years ago at one of those fields, I bought an AMP just to reduce the number of trips I would have to make to the pro-shop. It was worth it.

[JeeperCreeper]

I just use multiple tanks. I let them cool down an then top them off as needed. No need to add more complexity to the system.

[SR_matt]

Yep what TF_Aloha said for the most part. The staff at the field was pretty slim when I went and while they would help you fill you did have to wait for the ref to come back if they were doing other things. They also were not runni mg the compressor since it was a smaller group so we never got close to full fills, best was probably 4k hot but between the heat of the slam fill and temp out side it was dropping a lot (I went earlier on the week since the field will fill tanks for free during the week and got 4200 full that cooled to less than 3500 which was not ideal when trying to rebuild a mag, and needed up having to go back down and filled two tanks).

Later in the day we were getting 3500k hot fills than dropped to sub 3k when cool.

so that extra 400-700 psi does make a offense when I’m already getting low fills. My mag has a 68/45 SHP and then my pump gun I have a 17/4500. I only tested the pump but got less than a hopper out of it with the low fill and cooling. I don’t need to shoot a bag of paint on one fill with the pump but want a buffer over a hopper.

At the other fields where I can self fill it’s not an issue but having to wait for the ref and just get a slam fill is a pain. If I can force the fill to slow down just a little bit it would at least get me around a 4k fill I suspect.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Buy an Old CP fill nipple with the filter still intact it will take forever to fill your tank it will definitely slow your fills. (I remember having to punch them out for Xball) it will fill but super slow.

Also won’t inconvenience every one who don’t like standing in the air line for an extra 500psi.

Your tank gage is likely inaccurate, mags are gas hogs but the pump unless poorly tuned and getting a bunch of blow back should be getting way better numbers.

[SR_matt]

Yeah I’m not sure what was up with the pump. I only ever ran it on co2 before and could get a hell of a lot of shots out of a 12oz tank. I rebuilt it recently but everything was reset very close to before the rebuild and the reg was at least close to the sweet spot. I did run though the hooper pretty fast though so I probably lost some efficiency there if the tank was cooling a bit but it was also a pretty low fill since it was late in the day and they weren’t topping of the fill tanks so it was probably very low 3000 range hot. A full fill would probably 300+ I would assume which is pretty reasonable. If fields still filled co2 I would have just gone with that but is what it is I guess.

Edit: also the pump was super inconsistent from what it used to be. Back in the day I was getting literally +/- 1fps but I was getting closer to 15. So not sure if it was a combo of the reg needing to break in, the paint just not being as consistent as it used to be, or what.

[Trbo323]

I have a feeling that SR_matt is in the same type of situation as I am in with the fields in Orlando. Rental heavy places don't let you fill your own tank, but, since they primarily care about rental customers who all go on break together, they're never good about quickly and properly filling a tank. You don't "just get it filled" at a Chuck-E-Cheese place like that, you have to get in a gaggle of sweaty renters and try to get the attention of a slack-jawed teenager who is practicing their best "peripheral vision doesn't exist" for a future job bartending at clubs that specialize in sugary drinks that mask the taste of Rohypnol. After enduring the initial ordeal to get a hot 2900 psi fill in your 4500 tank, going through it again a few minutes later just to get topped off doesn't really sound appealing.

How dare they! The injustice! Let's sue!

stop sensationalizing it. Just because it's not the best situation doesn't automatically mean it's the absolute worst either. We have all been there anyway and there are ways to mitigate it.

Get out early? Go get filled before the rental hoard.

Get out late/win the game? Go fill pods and clean splatter while the line dies down

Still have a problem with getting a fill? Use 12g, bring a second tank or scuba tank or use co2.

Hell, how about donate your time to the field for free so they can have someone more competent doing fills? The downside here is then everyone will be complaining about however you are doing fills instead of the high schooler you replaced.

Not to mention, your entire point here is pretty moot because if the field is concentrating on rental players, what's the chances they are 1) allowing you to attach anything between the fill whip and your tank? And 2) allowing you to take 5x as long to fill your tank as everyone else?

Assuming the answers are 1) hell no and 2) no, was there actually a point here? You have just proven that you can't change anything about how you get a fill.

Has anyone ever clocked how long it takes for a tank to cool down to a pre-fill temperature? I really doubt it's less than a minute. How long are you willing to stand at the fill station for?

I still have to ask, what's the end goal here? If it's to get an extra 400psi (I think that's an optimistic amount but whatever) then to do what with? At best you are getting a handful of shots. All that to avoid topping off the tank while the rental players are figuring out who is on what team for the next game.

I still think a bigger tank is a better option



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[SR_matt]

For what it’s worth even after 15-20 mins driving from the field the tanks were still notably warm. If you were outside in the cooler air with them it would take a bit less but it’s sure not just a min.

Like I said with how much of a slam fill I was experiencing I was dropping close to 700 psi or over 16% loss. That’s pretty massive. I’m not trying to slow it down to take mins to fill just want to slow it a few seconds to not have an 80-100*f increase in the internal temp.