Tippmann C3s considered firearms?

[Gutmust]

I was going to put up a request on the WTB forums about wanting a couple Tippmann C3s as they're kind of perfect for playing in the back yard of my middle of nowhere house. Was about to create a post and then a friend told me they probably can't ship it because it's considered a firearm. Can anyone confirm the C3 really is a firearm? some googling gets me mixed responses from not very reliable sources so the Experts may be my best bet.

[lew]

Your friend is feeding you a line of bull. It is not classified as a firearm.

[Gutmust]

Your friend is feeding you a line of bull. It is not classified as a firearm.

He is that guy who claims that everyone but him freezes paint so I was skeptical, thank you for your help!

[XEMON]

Definitely not, I was told I could bring it on USAFB to go play at their field without problem.
their only concern is fire ...

[Hp_lovecraft]

Its definetly not legal to ship the propane canister, and maybe the c3 has legal issues in other countries?
But in the USA, it is 100% not a firearm. Tippmann made it clear back in the day that it was totally approved as a sporting device, etc.

Maybe because of the design, the propane is burned, and the exhaust gas is fed through a regulator, or sorts, then channelled to the breech. The gas itself is NOT burned in the breech/bore, so maybe that is the difference? If you look at the gun, you can see how the combustion unit is almost a seperate piece from the upper breech assembly.

Anyway, I think its a cool gun that solved the issue of co2/hpa availibility. But it overheated. I read the initial prototypes were all semiauto, but got WAY to hot too fast.

[Gutmust]

their only concern is fire ...

Is there much of a fire hazard on these things? they seemed like fairly small and contained explosions. The fire hazard is more then any Air gun for sure, but there is so little on this marker I really don't know much about that aspect of these things.

[Killerito]

If you don’t adjust it properly you can shoot pretty big fire balls.

Probaly more likely to catch something on fire laying it down after playing to. I firget I had a thread with all the info on the old sight

[KMDPB]

It's a grey area but I would say no it's not a firearm, if it was the ATF would have already deemed it as such. But is it a firearm by definition? I would say yes but tippmanns lawyer said it was not a firearm because propane is not considered an explosive by the atf. And the definition of a firearm being "any weapon which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive." So if it was to go to court I believe it could go either way. But its obviously a paintball gun so no one has or ever will care except for us mcarterbrown nerds.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Chappy]

The definition of a firearm in the dictionary and the legal definition of a firearm vary greatly. No it’s not a firearm and there really is no grey area. If California and the people’s republic of New Jersey allowed their sale, then we're good to go I’d say.

[KMDPB]

Yes that's what I'm saying its obviously a paintball gun and not a firearm. But by the legal definition of a firearm you could definitely argue that it is a firearm. But no one would ever make that argument because no one cares.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Axel]

But no one would ever make that argument because no one cares.

/Thread

[Trbo323]

It's a grey area but I would say no it's not a firearm, if it was the ATF would have already deemed it as such.

The atf also has more pressing matters to work on over a handful of yahoos in the woods shooting paint at each other with markers that are slightly different than what the rest of the established sport uses

The definition of a firearm in the dictionary and the legal definition of a firearm vary greatly. No it’s not a firearm and there really is no grey area. If California and the people’s republic of New Jersey allowed their sale, then we're good to go I’d say.

"Any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive"

That's The ATF, technically the c3 does fall under that since it uses an explosive gas mixture.

I think it was just never produced in any kind of numbers to be on the atf radar though and since it really wasn't any more dangerous than paintball gear that already existed they didn't bother regulating it (assuming they even knew it existed and bothered to look at the differences between it and co2 markers)

Regardless of if it should or shouldn't be, it's not considered a firearm, ship that sucker

Also, fun....maybe fact? Talking to an old shop owner who was already a shop owner when the c3 came out, he said that colman was so against the idea of their propane tanks being used on anything that resembled a gun, they actually changed the design of their propane canisters slightly so they would not work with the c3


Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[Arthur]

No it’s not and even if it was the ATF has bigger fish to fry.

People concerned about this are the same folks who keep droning on about how a paintball suppressors will get you thrown in federal prison. Never mind the fact a paintball gun isn’t a firearm or that your suppressor wouldn’t fit any of your rifles.

ATF is concerned with a someone intent. They have to prove that you INTENDED to silence your rifle (illegally).

[XEMON]

The issue with ATF/court is the same as any paintball gun ... Go play in the woods, it's not a weapon, but mug someone with it and it will be considered one ...

For the coleman canister, I used them on mine ... No problem.

For the "fire hazard" it's more people getting worried because they are not familiar with it. If you take it to the field,.expect a good 10-30 minutes of explaining the field owner and ref what it is and that it is a Paintball gun and safe to play with and bla bla bla .......
it does get hot a bit, don't go crazy shooting an entire hopper straight and you'll be fine.
i made a post in the tippmann section with some details about the gun (it need more pictures and some polishing).

[DocsMachine]

People concerned about this are the same folks who keep droning on about how a paintball suppressors will get you thrown in federal prison. Never mind the fact a paintball gun isn’t a firearm or that your suppressor wouldn’t fit any of your rifles. ATF is concerned with a someone intent. They have to prove that you INTENDED to silence your rifle (illegally).

-Er, where do you think BOA/Barrels of America went?

BOA had a model they called the Concealor, basically their typical brass barrel, but with slightly larger porting holes. With it was sold an ABS/delrin sleeve that went over the holes to act like a suppressor.

They were literally raided by the ATF, who swept in, confiscated computers, paperwork, equipment, tooling and inventory, and charged them with the production of silencers. As I recall, it cost them something like two years and $150K in legal fees before the case was settled- and even after that, they never got the inventory back. And of course being out of business for a couple of years killed what business they had.

The issue is that the ATF does not discriminate between an "airgun" suppressor and a "firearm" suppressor. The silencer itself is considered a controlled item, like a drop-in auto sear, or those threaded adapters that let you use oil filters as suppressors. As far as the ATF is concerned, if you can hand hold a PVC paintball suppressor over the end of a .22, and it quiets the shot even just one decibel, it's considered a suppressor and therefore subject to the law.

And the law has not changed since then. Yes, you can get silencers built into air rifles today, but note they all have to be essentially integral to the gun, permanently attached.

You're right in that one guy 3D printing a plastic silencer at home is unlikely to attract any legal attention. Start selling those on FB and eBay, and you're flirting with disaster, A pro shop like DYE or BLAST or Empire that tried making and selling one, would be shut down within weeks, guaranteed.

Just because the ATF isn't prosecuting, doesn't make them legal. Make one if you wish, but you're taking the risk. Personally, I won't make one unless and until the ATF specifically okays airgun silencers.

Doc.

[Jonnydread]

Wow, I learned something today. Poor BOA

[Arthur]

Wow, that’s terrible, I had no idea. I’ll do some reconsidering.

[Axel]

Agree with Doc 100%. Just because you are unlikely to be noticed doesn't mean they won't absolutely nail your ass to the wall if you ever do come to the attention of law enforcement.

And you are 100% wrong on intent. Note that having an umated pistol-length upper and a rifle-stock lower in the same vicinity has been classically construed as "intent" to illegally manufacturer a short-barreled rifle, regardless of what you might actually do or plan to do with these items.

[Arthur]

Agree first point yep, Doc brought the anti-man in me. Not sure what you are suggesting with the Second point your making but that is a text book SBR violation 101. Zero day light between us there. If you have real firearms, and real firearm parts that can be assembled into a real SBR, than yeah of course, obvious they’re throwing the book at you. That is real intent to possess or manufacture an SBR.