Tippmann C3s considered firearms?

[gabe]

So a quick search of airguns the other day showed that it's pretty common for the crossman modders to add a suppressor and even Pyramid air has a section for airgun suppressors. Doesn't seem like it's all that controlled. Heck, there's tons of "solvent traps" and stuff sold online.

But yeah, if it could potentially be attached to a firearm and it's use is to moderate sound then the ATF is all over it. Maybe not ALL over it since there's so many people out there making suppressors for various things but if you're caught with a gun and a potential silencer in your possession you could be charged with "constructive intent".

Looking at the available airgun "moderators" it looks like they intentionally thread them for a non-firearm thread pattern so as to discern between the two and prevent a constructive intent situation.

[Killerito]

As others have said it will depend where your trying to ship it/ import/export it from

bought and sold several in the us no issues had intrest from other people and refused because the headache of it all.

us go for it they are super fun
import export (other than Canada) meh not worth the trouble.

if is fun to pull the technically a fire add as well as pull the tank to throw on a grill.

[Hp_lovecraft]

It’s like that company that made the bolt on electro trigger. By the time the ad got into apg the atf swooped in and shut it down

otoh, the atf was fine with the mod 85

for the c3. Law dictates that firearms use a propellant AND is a weapon. This is why lots and lots of devices shoot things, but are not weapons, then not firearms

ie “signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device.”

this is, weirdly why the atf says spud guns are 100% legal, at federal level.

[Meleager7]

Its definetly not legal to ship the propane canister, and maybe the c3 has legal issues in other countries?
But in the USA, it is 100% not a firearm. Tippmann made it clear back in the day that it was totally approved as a sporting device, etc.

Maybe because of the design, the propane is burned, and the exhaust gas is fed through a regulator, or sorts, then channelled to the breech. The gas itself is NOT burned in the breech/bore, so maybe that is the difference? If you look at the gun, you can see how the combustion unit is almost a seperate piece from the upper breech assembly.

Anyway, I think its a cool gun that solved the issue of co2/hpa availibility. But it overheated. I read the initial prototypes were all semiauto, but got WAY to hot too fast.

With all that waste heat, C3s would be fantastic Winter guns, wouldn't they? hands get cold, just snuggle up to your C3 between games!

[KMDPB]

[QUOTE=Hp_lovecraft;n49151]It’s like that company that made the bolt on electro trigger. By the time the ad got into apg the atf swooped in and shut it down

What tiger are you referring to? The electronic trigger group for an ar15? Cause theres a couple companies making them, I was unaware they ran into any legal issues.

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[KMDPB]

It’s like that company that made the bolt on electro trigger. By the time the ad got into apg the atf swooped in and shut it down

otoh, the atf was fine with the mod 85

for the c3. Law dictates that firearms use a propellant AND is a weapon. This is why lots and lots of devices shoot things, but are not weapons, then not firearms

ie “signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device.”

this is, weirdly why the atf says spud guns are 100% legal, at federal level.

What electro trigger are you referring to? Are you talking about the ar15 electronic trigger groups? Theres a couple companies making them and I was unaware that they ran into any legal issues.

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[Hp_lovecraft]

What electro trigger are you referring to?

Back 20 years ago, or so, a company release a little box that would attached to your mech trigger guard, and give you full auto. Inside the box was a solenolid, cap, board, battery, etc.
It wasnt much different then what you would get in your typical e-spyder. It also gave you electronic semi-auto.

But once the atf caught wind, it was instantly pulled from the market. For reasons which should be obvious.
Yes, electronic semi is atf legal. Some of the AR15 electric triggers are not legal in all states. I think california does not allow "binary mode", which is what we might call "auto response mode" in paintball.

My point was that sometimes we live in a bubble in paintball, where we can do whatever we want, but there is just enough of a crossover to firearms that occationallry we bring down the heat

[Cunha]

It took a long time for those trigger pulling boxes to be pulled instantly from the market, though.

Firestorm crank being the later non electronic version of the same thing. I can't remember the name of the electronic one with a little toggle switch.

[Hp_lovecraft]

It took a long time for those trigger pulling boxes to be pulled instantly from the market, though.
.

yes, "instant" might be relative. By the time I saw an ad in APG, I called and they said it was pulled from the market. Perhaps they were in the market for a year or more? They do occationally pop up in ebay and here.

One weird gadget I bought in the 90s was a "tri-burst" trigger. It is a ratcheting mechanism you attach to your trigger guard to give you a 3-shot burst.


It worked, kinda, but when your hopper is a VL2000.... you can only fire so fast, and it was far to easy to pull the trigger too fast.... and chop, chop , chop.
This too is probobly and illegal NFA item now? I never put it on my firearms, but I know it was already banned in california in the 90s for being a bit bouncy.

[Trbo323]

for the c3. Law dictates that firearms use a propellant AND is a weapon. This is why lots and lots of devices shoot things, but are not weapons, then not firearms
.

Except that the atf in their own definition specifically mentions starting pistols as firearms which is not a weapon



The definition is one thing but what they enforce is a completely different matter

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[Hp_lovecraft]

and just like that, one pops up on facebook. lol In credit to Psycho Ballistics, after this was pulled, they made some nice electro-pneumatic conversions that were ATF friendly

[lew]

Except that the atf in their own definition specifically mentions starting pistols as firearms which is not a weapon

The definition is one thing but what they enforce is a completely different matter

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It's the FAT agents; a Federal bureaucracy with near-unlimited power. If they had their way, paintball guns would be lumped in with firearms and they'd all be banned.

Enough politics, Hp_lovecraft Did the ATF get on Psycho Ballistics' case about that? How exactly did it work?

[Hp_lovecraft]

Did the ATF get on Psycho Ballistics' case about that? How exactly did it work?

It was basically a small box that attached to your trigger guard, that had a cam gear that pushed against the factory trigger. In the box were electronics, probobly a geared DC motor?
On the side of the box was a button that you pressed, and it gave you an adjustable full-auto. Not a really complicated design. It came out in 1999,
It was a novelty, but guns that had full-auto will still considered cool in the late 90s. The early electros had f/a modes, plus the AT85, and Tippmann with its F/A.

I wanted one, but when I called, they told me it was pulled from the market.
Not long after that Psycho Ballistics went to work on a better design, and came out with the EM-98, a true electo-pneumatic conversion for the tippmann, with all the modes. No ATF issues. The design was clunky, but worked well enough that Tippmann bought the design for themselves.

[lew]

Excellent. I remember the EM, but not its predecessor. Thanks for that.

[Cunha]

I'm pretty positive that the psycho ballistics product was a copy in their typical style (exact same thing) as the original bolt on full auto box conversion.

[MrKittyCatMeowFace]

reading this thread really saddens/angers me. Don't worry i aint parking a ryder full of fertilizer anywhere because of it.