Why have auctions/listings for older markers slowed down in recent years?

[Sniffy]

I've been casually searching for my personal "white whale" micromag for the past five years however it seems like auctions/sales listings have slowed considerably (especially for old markers with interesting anodization) the past few years. I'm aware of some of the broader trends within the sport and industry over the decades but I'm curious about what has changed with the supply or demand for older markers (specifically late 90s) in recent years.

In lieu of better data, I looked at the volume of 'for sale' posts by year on automags.org to confirm I'm not totally imaging this. This seems to support my perception as there were 283 posts in 2016-17, 141 in 2018-19, 62 in 2020-21, and just 31 in 2022-23. That's a very consistent 50% drop between each two-year period. Granted, not all of these posts were for older markers nor can I confirm they all sold but this seemed like best proxy available.

What drove this in 2016-19 and why did it decline so rapidly? I know odd collectables (like magic/sports/pokemon cards) rapidly increased in value in 2018 with crypto growth and later in 2020 during the pandemic but I don't know how much (if any) impact collectors have on the supply of older markers.

A bit of context as to why I'm asking - I haven't played in 20 years (played 97-03ish) but I have been occasionally lurking here/other forums/ebay since 2018 after I spent an afternoon revisiting old history and catching up on how the sport has changed. I came across an ebay listing for a stunning brown and blue micromag that really spoke to me, but I didn't bite as I wasn't really serious about playing again. It also seemed like there were heaps of listings for both entry level markers and cool anodized stuff I couldn't afford as a teenager like late 90s mags, cockers, etc. The former are still there but I'm just not seeing as much of the later.

This micromag has been haunting me. I couldn't remember any specifics other than that it was a micromag and for years I couldn't find anything with a similar ano pattern/colors. I was starting to that it ever existed until yesterday when I saw this post on reddit.

I've since figured out the 2018 listing was mostly likely a gen 2 PGP micromag with the "cool camo" pattern based on the info in this archived MCB thread on PTP patterns. I have no idea how rare this specific ano is but I'm happy to have finally confirmed I'm not just imagining it.

On a side note, what ever happened to Piers Wiggett from PK Selective? I understand he's responsible for much of the iconic ano from that era. Some of the old PTP patterns are just gorgeous. I read somewhere that he briefly had his own shop for a bit then was focusing on being an artist but I couldn't really find anything about art or work over the past decade.

Thanks in advance for reading and any insights you can offer. The FOMO has been real!

[RAZRBAKK]

Same reason you don't see many Datsuns for sale.

[Sniffy]

I may have underestimated how rare these are but I didn't think they were that rare!

[superman]

alot of people switched to facebook for sales and moved away from forums. It has been happening for years. facebook doesn't like paintball sales as they put it in the same category as firearms even though they are very different. Alot of stuff exchanges hands privately with out public posts to avoid facebook banning them from sales.

I will also say alot of people are collecting those classic markers and or using them since mech has made a resurgence it has slowed the marker speeds down. people are using classic stuff since it will still keep up but has more personality if you will.

[Sniffy]

That makes perfect sense. I always forget about how big FB marketplace has gotten as I'm not on there...

[superman]

They are pretty much immediately flagged through marketplace because it is all controlled by AI now. So it has to be sold through groups posted as discussion posts.

[Painthappy]

Honestly I think a lot are just being hoarded. Let's say you finally find your "white whale", do you plan on selling it right away?

Secondly the sport has slowed and also changed. Modern guns have been around for years and years so anyone that isn't in the know just assumes that old gun from the 1990's is outdated and worthless. Would explain why we've seen a few really rare guns on goodwill auctions over the past few years.

Sure Facebook has its groups, but in my neighborhood circle of friends none of us have an account so there is surely still a large market that isn't on there.

[Sniffy]

I see your point. I'd much rather hold on to something like that for eternity.

I'm not on FB so I often forget how much stuff moves through FB marketplace with a few other hobbies.

I think the ubiquity of PTP markers, Eclipse/Smart Parts splash kits, etc. in old catalogues combined with the timing of when I started paying attention again gave me the impression that there were much more of these in existance than there really are. I did find a few old threads where PTP stuff weighed in on production numbers for some patterns and they were so much lower than I imagined.

[DocsMachine]

The economy in general has a big influence, too. '16 to '19 were kind of boom years. I know that, personally, sales went up 20% a year, from 16 to 17, then again 17 to 18, and again 18 to 19.

Since then, the Covid Catastrophe (not in it's effects, but how it was handled) cut the knees out from under all that, and this current administration hasn't helped it a bit. I have since been losing 20-25% a year, on average, since '20.

And, of course, paintball is a pastime, a recreation. And when the economy sinks to the point people have to tighten their belts, the first thing they drop is incidentals like toys and recreation.

Speaking personally, given the outright loss in sales, the reduction in value of what I have been making thanks to inflation, and the huge increase in costs of utilities, groceries and materials, my real-world income this year will be lucky to break 30-35% of 2019's.

That's not to say that FB hasn't been a thing, too, but between them, they're having a pretty marked effect.

Doc.

[Number six]

That got me thinking... during those boom years, a lot of people were finally able to get those unicorns we've been drooling over for years. I think that a lot of those markers will be spending a few years in their new homes with a slightly younger generation of buyers, instead of being on the market.

[minimag03]

For as popular as mechs are, I've noticed there forums moving fairly slow. Much, much slower than around 7 years ago when I was last playing. Back then I used to have to 'UP' my threads once each day. That's def no longer the case.

I recently put up a cocker for sale on here and PbN for about a week will only a few messages inquiring about it. I put it on FB (after figuring out how to bypass their rules) and it was sold in a few hours for its asking price.

[Magageddon]

As far as Ao goes, if you lost your old account like I did and tried making a new one, for whatever reason it locks you out from posting/messaging, so I can't do anything on Ao which was a big bummer for me. I mostly buy/sell here or on facebook. As far as your white whale goes, The person to talk to would probably be woulf. A year or two ago Roman passed away from covid and he was one of the bigger automag collectors, specifically micromags, the guy literally had hundreds of them in all the crazy annos you can think of. From my understanding Woulf had bought Romans collection from the family and did release a lot of micromags back into the wild. He might have the one you had linked to that reddit post.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Didn’t Wolff just sell a bunch of thoes recently in that Ano.

[Sniffy]

Is that woouulf on here? Looks like he sold some parts in that ano about a year ago...

[Magmoormaster]

As many have mentioned, most forums have been eaten up by facebook. AO, CC, PBN, TechPB, and many others are great examples. This has been one of the few that has survived. Since you're looking specifically at AO, I rarely posted there but it never seemed all that active even before the facebook days.

As for the gun in question, yeah micromags werre never that common to begin with. Crazy camo is one of the rarer colors too, unless I'm mistaken.

For whatever reason, mags didn't catch fire the same way cockers have over the last 10 or so years. The cocker market is definitely dwindling, old parts have been consumed by custom builds. Hoarders are, well, hoarding stuff, and as time goes on less and less old stuff survives. And with modern mechs (be it cockers, emeks, or anything else), the older stuff is losing popularity even around here.

[Morgenstern]

If you look at the collections pictures here and then realize most hoarders do not show off what they have, you have most of the answer. There also hasn’t been an economic downturn that would force some folks to sell in a long time. I also believe Mag folks are the biggest hoarders of all. It’s the reason that even a stock ex-rental mag that was hit by a truck is still a hundred bucks and probably always will be

[Tarsun2]

pre-covid i was buying near fully functional spyders for $10 - $20
a box of parts (essentially a bunch of spyders fully broken down) was only $30 - $50.

then the price of used spyders skyrocketed. would have been a good time to sell but i missed the bubble as seemingly everyone is financially strapped. on reddit people making 3 - 4x as much as me are struggling...

everyone is looking for a side hustle but no one is looking to buy. (gross over simplification). combined that with increased shipping costs and what people are willing to pay, its not really worth it...
the ebay fees, shipping fees, and everything that goes along with it. (gas to drive to the post office, your time waiting in line, dealing with lost packages...)

if i have a $20 spyder, its not really worth posting it up. My father tells me to just have the buyer pay shipping and cover the added cost of listing.
the thing is, that $20 marker now becomes a $40 - $50 marker and its no longer worth it for a buyer.

there is of course nostalgia . buying and keeping the markers.

[Ecapnation]

The market is finite.

I have also helped sell some major collections that never saw the Internet because they were bought up in person.

For every nostalgic return player there's also a stalwart OG baller black holing guns.. like me! I have stuff I don't post about because I don't want to be pestered by some low balling neo-hoarder/flipper.

[redsquirrel]

Neo-hoarder is such a great term 😂

[Ecapnation]

It's the guys who buy shit and sit on it thinking it will turn to gold to flip at a later date.

[Sniffy]

Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate you all taking the time to fill me in and manage my expectations a bit!

[maggot]

There's plenty of Cool Camo Micromags out there, I've owned roughly a dozen of them over the years. Own one or two now. They're not easy to find, but they certainly exist.
Keep searching and one will come up eventually!

[Jaccen]

After an enlarging family/RL job/COVID/etc., I just happened to try and log into MCB. I'm just slowly piecing together what has happened since I last logged in 4 years ago. The server crash, people no longer with us, having to remake my account............I almost feel like Fry waking up in Futurama.

The prices a Trilogy or Spyder commands nowadays............I had to check a few more BST threads to make sure I wasn't being trolled. I think I need a support group or something.

[Jonnydread]

Trilogies are fetching a higher than traditional price right now due to the new Lazarus valve. Not sure which Spyders you are referring to, most of them still seem fairly cheap outside of the oddball rare ones like the EM1, etc.