Does anyone have a general idea of how many guns ccm has sold over the years? You end up seeing the same ones for sale repeatedly giving you a sense that there isn't many out there, but I'm sure that's wrong as many are owned by someone that will never have a desire to sell. I remember reading somewhere that Mike Cassidy sold just over 100,000 phantoms over the course of his career. I would assume Bill would have a similar number maybe less? CCM is just an example of a fairly niche brand. I am always curious what the number of various paintguns in existence are.
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Gas, Grass or Brass, no one rides for free... -
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No idea but also curious... If you think about the serial numbers they aren't that high? I would assume the number would be WAY lower than phantoms.. Even across multiple different iterations of CCM's:
S5 Semi
S5 Pump
S5 Basic
S5RF
S6
S6rf
J2 semi
J2 pump
J2 facrory drilled for E-blade
J2L
J12
T2 (4 different generations right?)
S6.5
S6B
T2-S6.5 combo
T26
MBP
S6M
SS25M
SS25
SS23
J11
S6P
are you counting some of your more unique stuff like the multiple converted.50 revolvers.. m40 and SSR as well?
there is also all the versions of works markers....
maybe 100K markers isn't outside the realm of possibility?Last edited by Loophole; 02-28-2024, 11:53 PM.Comment
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For the price they bring they better have made 1/10th the # of ccm’s compared to phantoms…..Comment
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While the total number of CCM are probably high. The total number of each production line and design is low. For instance the difference between a 1st Gen T2 and the latest is very different. CCM were built to order. You got to order each piece the way you wanted. The basic markers are not rare but specific pieces that were made over the years and the prototype parts are and can be rare. CCM is a custom machine shop so with enough money, pressure, and rapport you could get a lot of cool stuff made. Especially back in the day.
There are a lot of great machinist out there today. You could build a really nice marker but there is no doubt the quality CCM produced over its time building high end pumps. if you don’t understand there resale value it’s because you haven’t shot a properly tuned one to factory spec.
There are people out there that can build better markers with more options and better fit and finish. But none have the extensive line and portfolio CCM has.
Ryan Jameson with his RJK builds come to mind. He however does modify a lot of stuff vs build from scratch. His fit and finish is 2nd to none. But CCM builds all there parts from scratch and with the exception of a few parts manufactured over its lifetime are some of the best made.
It’s going to be hard to get true numbers as CCM were made to order so the more popular they were when producing them the more are out there. Also time and place in history plays a big part as well. If a marker was produced in a good point in the economic history more were made.
Markers that flopped in there time are the ones bringing massive money today. Like the J12 is the worst maker CCM ever produced but bring $5k+ its low production because CCM realized it to. They had issues which CCM fixed with updated parts. They were also very expensive for CCM to produce so the production time killed profit on them they were discontinued after a very short run. That’s what makes them valuable to some people. You see the same markers because a lot of the people who originally custom ordered there markers keep them. There was a time you could buy CCM cheap. One idiot payed 1k+ on eBay drunk posted about it on the internet and over night everyone who was holding had gold. The rest is history. CCM slowed production supply went down around the sometime and the scalpers came out in full force inflating the prices of everything. Now you have the EBay chop shop leaches buying up everything responsibly priced outside the eBay / BookFace ecco chamber looking to strike it rich on CCM bits. That’s why my CCM aren’t posted and are past around like heirlooms between Ballers. That’s why you see the same markers all the time the rare stuff gets traded amongst players friends and collectors.Last edited by Chuck E Ducky; 02-29-2024, 10:02 AM.Comment
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I payed 450 for my J2L. I payed more for the gloss parts I added to it 9 years later then I did for the marker. -
I paid $500 for my #049 T2 from the original owner probably 5 years ago now. He was a member on here I can't remember who it was. My buddy also bought a later model T2 for $500 just before the whole covid thing and it's mint. We both use our T2s when we play pump tourneys because they're insanely reliable and they just shoot. I think my T2 is one of those markers that I won't let go of no matter how inflated the market gets, kinda like my phantom.
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I think your 100,000 number for CCI-era Phantoms is way off. I bought some of the last ones he made and my serials don’t go past 41,000 or so. He didn’t build them in order so there might be 43,000 or so but I don’t think much more than that. I’m not sure I’ve see 42,000+ series on a CCI Phantom.Originally posted by KMDPB View Post
CCM I assume would be much much less given how custom they are.Comment
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Collectors market aside…have you seen what EV charges for a Phantom these days? A Phantom that can’t run on 12gs and leaks out of the box might be as much as a grand if the anno is ugly enough. This flips the tables on the “much better deal” situation we’re used to. I think you get way more gun for your money with CCM now, it’s just more money.Originally posted by Yamess191 View PostComment
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Both CCM and Phantom prices are eye watering these days, at least compare to the good old days. I hadn't looked at CCM's own prices and was blown away at how expensive they are. Don't take that as a knock on their quality, CCM makes excellent products and largely always has, but over 2K CAD for a pump marker!? That said, I'd rather see CCM make the money that scalpers, but you can build one heck of a pump for considerably less.Comment
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What people fail to realize is inflation is crazy right now in the US so that increases the cost of everything. We trained entire generations of kids for jobs that don’t exist and are now being outsourced to new AI tec. Machinists are in short supply so it allows trade skill laborers to chase better markets. Paintball is a side hustle for CCM a business that fills in down time on machines that run Government contracts that pay big dollars. Prices are up because machine time is expensive. The used market adjusted to the lack of supply because demand for there products are still there. Demand to the point it creates its own secondary market selling scavenged parts. -
Completely fair, and inflation is crazy in Canada right now as well. Given the demand, CCM can and should charge what they want. They deserve to make the money and be able to invest it into new markers etc and not flippers who generally don't benefit paintball at all. -
Yeah it sucks especially from a pump players perspective. One nice thing the Aftermarket is responding. Mozak is making some sick frame options, ODM makes some really cool handle and grip panels, and Autococker parts gold lower kit is basically CCM lowers without the scalper mark up. Also the Slice gold / platinum guide rods are the same dimensions as CCM so it opens a bunch of options just wish Autococker parts offered the slice kit in parts without the handle. Finding a cool body is easy. It’s the rest of the parts that add up on a build quickly. With the price of used CCM parts it cost +2x what it cost to buy a complete marker hence the Chiply Chop Shops and high resale on the used market. BookFace did the same thing to the Flex market. Pump and Dump
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You are are right in this interview he says 39,xxx not sure where i got that number from.Originally posted by SignOfZeta View Post
Gas, Grass or Brass, no one rides for free...Comment
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10-20,000 CCM’s sounds like the right ballpark to me.
I agree with the previous remarks about seeing the same items traded around. Most of us are collectors and hoard these markers. When stuff does come up we tend to scoop it up. They’re barely making markers now so most of us have the mindset that if we sell we’ll never get it back.Comment
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I also don’t understand where some of these Facebook appraisals are getting their numbers. I was watching a very basic S6.5 get appraised for $1400 while a nicer one with an extra handle and sizers had been sitting for weeks on Ebay for much less.
The only ones I’ve bought recently have always been a random commenter on a generic paintball BST group. Only way to find the older all-original ones. -
People use BookFace to influence the market all the time. I wouldn’t be surprised if the one on eBay is tied in some way to the appraisal. The pro flex pages were notorious for this. CCM became the cool thing to have after they slowed production. One guy posts what’s it worth a bunch of people or accounts post that it’s worth more then people are really paying and all of a sudden some fool pays way more then any of the people appraising it would ever consider really paying for it. An appraisal cost the appraiser nothing. But all of a sudden potential buyer think he’s getting a deal. People appraise what they think others will pay not what they will actually put the money up for. They don’t have to.
As for a lot of People not giving stuff up because they know they will never get it back. This is very true especially with the unique stuff. Most don’t even get posted.
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I would be shocked if there was a total of more than 5k viable guns that ever came out of Works/CCMComment
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In conversations with Bill, Rod, and Melissa over the years I was told peak production in a year was @ 400 units.
I get the sense that recent years are pretty far from "peak production".Comment
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