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    Paintball History Question

    So, I was chatting with some folks on Reddit about my experiences with paintball in the 90s and had a random thought that turned into a question, and I figure this would be the place to ask it.

    I remember back then there was a concern in the paintball community regarding the "redneck survivalist" image paintball had and how thanks to the rise of militia groups paintball would get legislated out of existence/regulated/shunnned/whatever. I did subscribe to APG magazine back then and saw a couple of articles about the possibility and how we as players should be more "mindful" and "politically correct" when talking about our hobby to avoid 'scaring the squares'.

    Now, my recollection of the reality of 90s woodsball doesn't line up with this even being a possibility, nor did I ever see any evidence of people hating on paintball because we had Scary Black Guns and Wore Camo. And really, 90s woodsballers (at least where I lived) were mostly a bunch of suburban teenage nerds; some wore a bit of camo, but most also wore sneakers, hoodies and Metallica t-shirts. Most had either ponytails or shaggy Kurt Cobain hair, acne, and a lot wore glasses. Nobody had the scratch for fancy kit - which is why some kids wore hoodies on the field. you could easily stash a pod or two in the pocket.

    In short, taken in sum we looked about as "tacticool" as an episode of M.A.S.H.

    Sure, there was the occasional older guy (30s/40s) who would show up in worn out camo with oil stains ( I learned what that meant right quick), usually packing either a beat-up Illustrator or some species of Sheridan...and those guys were serious. They'd one-ball you out of nowhere, glide past you on their way to their next target, and shake your hand in the staging area between games. If you asked, they'd explain how they snuck up on you. Like I said, definitely took their paintball seriously but again not very "tacticool" or aggressive at all. Just...you know, really good at paintball.

    My experience with any "Moral Panic" regarding paintball was parents (usually mothers, mine included) asking various questions of the field owner about what this "paintball" thing was about...and it was more geared toward "is it safe?" than anything else. There was the occasional question about military involvement/militia stuff, but the owner just answered their questions with information and courtesy and that was generally that.

    So I guess my question is, did that "Moral Panic" ever actually materialize anywhere? WAS there ever an organized attempt to shut down/limit paintball due to its 'redneck/survivalist' roots? Did I just get lucky and miss the fire, or was the whole worry for nothing? Because I don't remember any real attempts at coming after woodsball...and honestly, IMO the attempt in the 2000s by the industry to turn paintball into the next "extreme sport" did far more damage to its image and enjoyment factor than any supposed connection to survivalist groups ever did.

    Am I missing something?

    #2
    I enjoyed reading this haha. I was far too young then, but I have seen news footage from the 80s and 90s (probably on pegleg's channel) where some guy was talking about paintball stimulating war and being violent.

    Then there was the court case that I believe Bud Orr was part of and he shot someone to prove it wasn't dangerous. That was in NJ I think, they were going to outlaw it.
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    • Paintslinger16

      Paintslinger16

      commented
      Editing a comment
      Paintball was actually marketed first as the War game, and or, Splatball, paintball and Marker came out because it was immediately getting a stink eye from zoning boards and city or town councils

    #3
    Originally posted by iamthelazerviking View Post
    I enjoyed reading this haha. I was far too young then, but I have seen news footage from the 80s and 90s (probably on pegleg's channel) where some guy was talking about paintball stimulating war and being violent.

    Then there was the court case that I believe Bud Orr was part of and he shot someone to prove it wasn't dangerous. That was in NJ I think, they were going to outlaw it.
    Huh, I never heard about that. Guess I did get lucky and miss stuff.

    Comment


      #4
      Yeah while I can't give you specific examples, I feel like the sport survived by the slimmest of margins in that era. Remember there's tons of countries where paintball is illegal for all sorts of reasons.

      Just in Germany markers are controlled just like firearms, can you imagine what that would do to the sport?

      Today the image of the sport is largely speedball which I imagine helps differentiate it from the commando/military training aspect. Not too mention airsoft has come a long way in the years

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        #5
        Originally posted by Trbo323 View Post
        Yeah while I can't give you specific examples, I feel like the sport survived by the slimmest of margins in that era. Remember there's tons of countries where paintball is illegal for all sorts of reasons.

        Just in Germany markers are controlled just like firearms, can you imagine what that would do to the sport?

        Today the image of the sport is largely speedball which I imagine helps differentiate it from the commando/military training aspect. Not too mention airsoft has come a long way in the years

        Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk
        Yeah, some of the regulations in other countries just make me cringe. I mean really...regulating paintball markers like firearms, while allowing the open sale of stuff like baseball bats and hockey sticks? That's just silly...but probably a reaction that we in the US were fortunate to miss.

        I really take a dim view of speedball, and hate that its the public face of paintball in general. Mainly because my big memory of speedballers is "jerk-jock try-hards who show up at the field with expensive gear and bully people who can't afford to keep up with them". For a time they were mostly just a nuisance, because woodsballers could use home-field advantage, fade back into the bush and pick them off by using bushcraft skills to get close to zap them before they noticed us. But once the field I played on changed hands, the woodsball area closed and the new owners changed to a "speedball in the woods" format, there was no getting around their superior firepower. At that point (2001) I just quit playing because it wasn't fun anymore.

        These days fields seem to have realized letting people with tourney-grade gear dominate people incessantly is bad for business, so recreational paintball is fun again. But man, the early 2000s were not a good time.

        Comment


        • Fossilhead
          Fossilhead commented
          Editing a comment
          Ah yes, and the firearms race of uncapped semi-auto, cheater boards etc.

          Ran off a lot of newcomers. It really became an issue of he with the most money wins.

          And why wouldn't fields that sell paint want people dumping a case a game?

        #6
        1985 So. California Paintball 'Ch. 7' News Series, OLD SCHOOL PAINTBALL (youtube.com)

        1988 'America Today' TV news paintball story, old school paintball! - YouTube

        Pegleg Paintball 2001 tv commercial w/ Dale Price, Capt. Paraplegic Turtles, Utah (youtube.com)

        Dale Price - YouTube

        ^Is this SugarStump?^​​

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        • Drunkscriblerian
          Drunkscriblerian commented
          Editing a comment
          Having watched it, that seems like a pretty neutral documentary of what paintball used to be like. Yeah, a little biased (and kinda dumb because news gonna news), but again that "neutral, but a little biased because people aren't getting it" vibe is pretty much what I remember growing up and getting into the sport in the 90s. And again it resulted in some moms having some questions, but in my experience no one really came at us over stuff like this. I mean, did they? Again, did I miss something?

        • Axel

          Axel

          commented
          Editing a comment
          That is him, yes

        #7
        yes Dale Price is sugarstump, also the guy that embarrassed his kid by dressing up in different costumes while waiting for the bus.
        World's most embarrassing dad who wore a different costume to wave his son off on school bus for 170 days | Daily Mail Online

        Speaking of other countries regulations, last I knew, Japan limits velocity to 180fps.

        Someone else probably knows better about the story behind triggernomics in germany. I've read they confiscated supplies and/or custom guns from him but I don't know how much or what is true. I just know I haven't seen anything new from him in years.​

        Australia was looking at banning semi autos for a while leading Air Soldier Products to develop the model 98 pump kits.
        Last edited by k_obeastly; 03-12-2024, 04:54 AM.

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          #8
          Originally posted by k_obeastly View Post
          Australia was looking at banning semi autos for a while leading Air Soldier Products to develop the model 98 pump kits.
          -As I understood it, Oz didn't "ban" or "outlaw" semiautos, it was some quirk about not being able to import them. Once in the country, they were legal (at least in certain states) but they couldn't legally be imported. I'd heard that was part of the reason the Automag pump was developed: Import it as a pump, the owner pulls the pump kit and wave spring out, uses it as a semi. (How true that rumor was, I have no idea.)

          The issues with the 'militia' thing were real, but undefined. There was no one big court case, or similar event, that I'm aware of. It was simply a matter of a fair number of fields, just about anywhere, at one point or another had to deal with public opinion. Some parents or parents groups would speak out against it- as they have for decades, over long hair, skateboarding and rock & roll music - or some reporter, usually with an anti-gun viewpoint, would badmouth the sport as "violent" or "war games", and paint with red fill seen as "shooting fake blood at each other".

          I seem to recall- but can't specify- reading about a few fields over the years, that got shut down over local-public outcry, or the publig getting the places' zoning variance withdrawn, or convincing the land owner not to rent to those "warmongers", etc.

          BUT... that was no one big event you can point to. It was all little more than low-level harassment. Which is part of the reason the sport was so self-governing early on- "markers" rather than "guns", agreeing not to sell blood-red paint, trying to get the renters to stop using terms like "kills" or "bullets", the change over from cammies in the woods to hockey jerseys and brightly-colored rubber bunkers, and so on.

          The Jersey thing- which I didn't know Bud was part of- was simply over the markers. New Jersey wanted to restrict them as if an actual firearm, and it was taken to court to reverse that.

          Doc.
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          • Grendel

            Grendel

            commented
            Editing a comment
            The field "Wolf's Lair" had some PR issues back in the late 80s (maybe early 90s) I cannot remember when it stopped being a field by that name. I played there on one occasion under the Wolf's Lair name for a "big" game and really had no issues.

          • Paintslinger16

            Paintslinger16

            commented
            Editing a comment
            Wolf’s lair was heavy on the Nazi Germany image, without actually saying Nazi.
            The original fields where mostly all named after Europe battle fields, and the home team was the Waffen Elite a play on Waffen SS, they all dressed in Black Fatigues and wore black berets they were also sponsored in part by Tippmann and all carried SMG’s.
            Part fantasy like cosplay I guess but didnt really go over well. I played there soon after it opened in 1988

          • Paintslinger16

            Paintslinger16

            commented
            Editing a comment
            I believe NJ it was actually illegal in all forms to about 89, Ray Gong was the first field owner and the industry like Budd backed the legal fight,

          #9
          I had a friend [Steve Washington] who got lost at a paintball field during a big game and ended up on a public road (circa 1988). He figured out where he needed to go and walked down the side of the road to the field decked out in 80s typical surplus camouflage carrying a "gun". Some concerned citizen called the Sheriff on him and after a quick interview [investigation] the Deputy gave him a ride the rest of the way to the field.

          So there were "Karens" back then and when it hit the media it was hyped up just like now the benefit to paintball back then was that news tended to stay mostly local. This is where the internet and constant news cycles have caused a lot of "hand wringing" and overt concern about paintballs image. I think there were a lot of people in the industry overly concerned about paintballs image [i.e. Marker vs. Paintgun, Clown Cloths vs. Camo, Small form factor games vs. large woods based games...etc.] that really wasn't warranted but while I did not like it was a reasonable ask of the paintball community as a deterrent.

          There were instances and reported instances of paintball being used as a training method for some of the less desirable fringe groups. During the 80s I was a member of the "Survivalist Movement" the predecessor of the Militia off shoot. In some of those like minded (survival training) gatherings paintball was brought up often as a means of training and preparing for a collapse. So it was perfectly reasonable for an outsider to get the wrong idea. My getting out of the Survivalist Movement sort of coincided with my getting involved with paintball. Paintball was a way more positive experience and most of my "survivalist" friends really were going down a path I was not interested in. I am a skill person I saw survival discussion, training and education as skills training for self sufficiency without a political bent. Not so much for a lot of the hardcore associates.


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            #10
            I remember this concern but if you’re coming at it as a 90s kid it was probably past the worst of it. By the time Walmart blowbacks were a thing this was not a problem. Your experience reminds me of the VHS tape I saw at church in the 80s explaining how listening to Bon Jovi and Cindi Lauper was a path to hell. The industry wanted to sell to younger and younger and younger kids who didn’t even know rednecks and they were just covering their ass, honestly. The KKK is a funny joke…until it isn’t.

            Since I’ve been into paintball in the 80s white supremacy was mostly dormant. That started changing around 2016 and now we have all sorts of crazy groups like…openly gay Neo-Nazis. The very idea of that boggles the mind. What would Hitler say?

            All these years they should have been warning people about something other than paintball. Real estate possibly. Nobody post WWII ever did as much for paramilitary whack jobs and white nationalists as big T, and if you think I’m exaggerating ask David Duke. Nine out of ten clansmen agree!

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              #11
              There was a field in Newberg, Oregon that got shut down in the early 90's because of complaints from neighbors. They thought we were all paramilitary lunatics out training for whatever the hell people were pissed off about back then - but it was just a bunch of kids running around in camo, giggling. The field was surrounded by farmland and relations with the old farmers had never been better than cordial I guess. What brought it to a head though was they ran a 24 hour big game and actually brought in a helicopter to buzz the field and ran a raffle where you could win a spot to be the door gunner in the thing. Anyway, that was the final straw and the neighbors got the place shut down. I want to say this was '92 or '93 so my memories aren't the sharpest, can't even remember the name of the field. Think I only played there 3 or 4 times.

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              • iamthelazerviking
                iamthelazerviking commented
                Editing a comment
                This is fun to read about, I'm originally from Lake Oswego and got into paintball around 2001/2, and being young and broke didn't really get to play a lot or at many different places before moving away

              • Rusty Brass

                Rusty Brass

                commented
                Editing a comment
                I grew up in West Linn and one of my paintball buddies lived in Mountain Park. We actually played most of our games outlaw in the greenspaces around both towns if you can believe that. Only had the cops show up once and they just watched for a few minutes before telling us to not shoot up anyone's house. This was '91-95 (high school). Different time.

              #12
              Originally posted by Drunkscriblerian View Post
              Sure, there was the occasional older guy (30s/40s) who would show up in worn out camo with oil stains ( I learned what that meant right quick),
              I'm ignorant- what did the oil stains mean?
              cellophane's feedback

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              • Chuck E Ducky

                Chuck E Ducky

                commented
                Editing a comment
                OG veterans of the sport.

              • Paintslinger16

                Paintslinger16

                commented
                Editing a comment
                Originally we only had Nelson oil based paint which was in aluminum tubes and the 007 was the only marker.
                I was working in the pulp industry back then and the foresters still used the guns and high distance Nelson spray paint cans

              • cellophane

                cellophane

                commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks =)

              #13
              Worth mentioning... The fringe aspect never went away.

              Ten years ago iirc there was an FBI raid at skirmish invasion of Normandy (ion) because in the far end of the campground way away from the rest of the campers was a white supremacist rally using the event as cover for training .
              ​​​​​​.
              The industry/media shit there pants and buried it real fast

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              • Paintslinger16

                Paintslinger16

                commented
                Editing a comment
                We also had the infamous Keith Idema that used this SF image to make great kit and also wink wink you too can be like me, sort of sales tactics

              #14
              Wasn’t there something about the wolfs den early on that bought the media attention. I remember seeing an old video with Jerry Brawn maybe makes the case for paintball on a talk show. They were trying to change the PR of paintball from a bad boy extreme perspective to more of a survival game. Isn’t that why Jerry changed the name to Survival NY.

              Comment


                #15
                Wow, this thread went cool places while I was away. Thanks for the historical perspectives y'all, I really appreciate it. I remember being confused by the sudden changes in paintball back when I played and this information is helping me put some pieces together - stuff changed crazy fast back then, even as a teenager you blinked and everything was different.

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