The sleeper cocker project

[Drcemento]

After a yearlong steamy affair with automags, I have a big block early 90's stock cocker that is calling to me to start throwing money at it and get back to my roots. My dream has long been a sleeper cocker - looking pretty bone stock on the outside but able to lay out some paint at a surprising rate when called upon. I've seen a couple builds that have gotten me excited. heres where I want to take it and would love to get everyones input on how to get there, or suggestions for alternative solutions.

• inception front end pneumatics - no reason other than it looks most old schooly and compact to hide under shroud
• mill out backblock to lighten but keep OG look
• AKA lightening bolt and cocking rod
• inception internals
• gunfighter frame
• freak bore stock barrel and drill out porting at the nose a-la-1995

issues/questions

• this is a sheridan sprung cocker, and also - i think 9/16? what issues will i have getting it nelson sprung with the ID internals and running right? I can get old adjustable IVG plugs that are non threaded from Bacci. will the spring lengths be all wrong?
• running it on HPA - what other work would Ideally be done to run it off air?
• efficiency - issues/ expectations/work that could be done to make it better?
• firing rate - anything else I'm missing there that is inherent to that old design that will be slowing me down
• gunfighter frame and trigger - best choice? - looks stock-ish - any other ideas on a more sleeper trigger assembly?

[Meleager7]

in my opinion, your gunfighter frame / inception 3 way combo will take care of all your speed needs. Moving that extra mass of the old school back block, longer pre 2k bolt, longer pump arm can all be taken care of by increasing the LPR pressure ie. the force behind the ram.

[pintbuster]

Meteor made a single hole frame that takes modern guts, the adjustable trigger is where the speed is born.
ANS non threaded IVGs are on you tube cheap, pick whatever valve you want.
Is your body drilled for a lug adjustment?
The old stuff is time consuming to tune compared to the new stuff, but anything new will make it look "not stock" to someone who knows.
I don't run into people outside of MCB games that would know the difference between the old WGP and shocktech.

[Jordan]

If you really want the sleeper look with high ROF you might be interested in a pneucocker setup.

I built this one on a '98 body that I mini-ed.

[Drcemento]

Thanks guys - I know "sleeper" is a relative term - there was a good discussion about it here awhile ago. Either way I love the look and have always wanted to dial a big block one in since i first owned one and abandoned it in frustration, never being able to get it to work.

Body is drilled for lug adjustment, and when i got home today i dug around and found a non threaded IVG. think i'm going to order up the front end, internals and gunfighter frame and see if i can make some magic. will start posting photos and build out here as things progress.

arent there length of body issues with the internals in an old cocker? how does the 9/16 front block affect things?

[Hellion360]

I love a nice slab.
Lug adjustment is the biggest hurdle with the internals swap to Nelson and you already have that taken care of.

It will have a smaller reservoir of air and that may mean a higher operating pressure. Really with the high quality of regulators and compressed air tanks these days shootdown shouldn't be a problem.

I have slabs running successfully at a variety of pressures but 400 PSI is pretty typical.

LMK if you need anything parts-wise.

[Drcemento]

haha - I just read your sig - as a matter of fact i do need both companies goodies for this project - how convenient! PM sent! would rather support an MCB'er

[Magmoormaster]

Yeah you'll want to get the valve chamber drilled out, pre-97 bodies had super tiny valve chambers. Also be aware that the full square back blocks require longer cocking rods than the more modern smaller blocks.

I think if you really wanted to make it look like a stock gun, there are better parts to choose, but it doesn't sound like that's really the priority.

[Drcemento]

Thanks to the shroud I'm not worrying to much about whats under there - I tossed around a few options over the years of thinking about it - i wanted all palmer front end at one point which is at least period correct... but now i'm a little more bendy on it. what would your suggestion be?

as for the chamber do you mean drilling out to 11/16 or the chamber in front of the valve where the block screws in?

[Cdn_Cuda]

I have a similar era cocker I updated as a bit of a sleeper. Was tempted to put and ID 3-way in it, but there is no ball detent so I was concerned about chopping.

I ended up going with slightly newer brass ram and LPR, updated the internals with a modern valve. Worked out welll. The yellow hose was the colour I had on hand and is coved the the pneumatic cover.

[Drcemento]

Alright - thanks to Hellion360 It was a one stop shop for all the goodies I wanted for this build - they came today and I worked through the set-up largely following inceptions choppy old as hell videos for the pneumatics. I dialed a stabilizer in at 400psi output. I brought a powerhouse reg down to 500 psi on my tank. I set up the bolt with a coned lug, starting at 3 1/2 turns from flush - it cocked and released early in the pull. I set up the 3 way rod with the front adjuster bolt flush per inceptions recommendations....... aired up and... leaky 3 way like nobody's business - adjusted it in - then out - sometimes it stopped the leak and I could kind of cycle the gun, but nothing seemed to stay for long..... suggestions - tips and techniques for setting up the gunfighter frame with the ID 3 way - are the adjustments super finite compared to timing a sloppy older cocker? I did dial the stabilizer down - that seemed to help.

[Psycho91]

Bring the hpr pressure down a bit 400 is kinda high, set it at 300 and go from there, but when you get it shooting your going to want to sweet spot the hpr

[Drcemento]

This is making me nuts - I cannot seem to find a spot where this 3 way is not leaking from one of the 8 holes in it - I changed out the o-rings in frusteration to no avail, and drained 2 68 Ci tanks trying to get it to do something.

One thing that I am confused about as well.... in inceptions video they show plumbing the ram opposite of any of my other cockers - like you would for a slider. I thought that might be the issue and changed it to match my other sliders.. just like cudas above. that actually seemed to make things worse?

[Drcemento]

Finally got it. sorry for the stream of consciousness posts. it was the o-rings - both the factory o-rings and the spares may have been old- not totally sure. pulled out the 3 way stem again and the front and back rings were chewed up from all the adjusting i imagine, but i think they also were never creating a seal. had some spares in my jumbo O-ring kit, replaced them and all the sudden it worked, with the adjusting end of the stem about flush with the end of the 3 way just as inception said.

dialed the reg down to 300 as well which seemed to help. also had confused myself further by changing the plumbing of the ram around again. cycles nice, now I can bring the two a little closer together. Really like the feel of the gunfighter.