Emek (Gamma Core) Pump...Again...

[nak81783]

I mentioned this idea in a similar thread a while back, and for some reason it's stuck in my head again. Some things up front.

• I don't expect there to be a market for this that would warrant Planet Eclipse to make it. I'm just looking for feedback on the general concept.
• I realize these markups oversimplify and/or don't address all the mechanics, design, and part fabrication. Again, just looking for feedback on the general concept.
• This concept won't cycle the bolt like a conventional pump, since nothing attaches to the bolt.
• Pump handle forward blocks recharge. Can't fire until pump handle is pumped back, allowing it to charge [edit] front of Gamma Core [/edit], and then back forward, allowing it to [edit] first charge the back of the Gamma Core (if trigger is forward) and then [/edit] vent/fire when the trigger is pulled.
• Pump handle back blocks vent [edit] and charging of back of Gamma Core [/edit], so it can't fire while holding the pump handle back.
• EDIT: Rethinking this one. See post 3. Autotrigger would be baked into this concept with no way (in the simple markups) to deactivate it.
• EDIT: After staring at the cycle video some more, I think residual pressure would return the bolt even with the trigger held back and pump in forward position. I think the bolt would stay forward until it's allowed to recharge, at which point the bolt would return to home. I'm not sure, but bolt may return if there's enough blowback and/or residual pressure to bring it back.
• I think you'd have to pump it after gassing up to charge it for the first shot.
• Is there some type of brick or cylinder seal that could seal as shown in the markup, or would it need offset channels for each flow path, similar to a 3-way.
• With all that said, I don't see how more than one shot could occur with this markup without pumping.
• First image is pump handle forward with marker charged. Recharge is blocked but vent to fire is open.
• Second image is pump handle back. Vent to fire is closed. Recharge is open.
• I didn't take screenshots at the proper time in the video to show proper airflow. The images are just meant to show seal location for blocking/allowing flow.

I'll add more bullet points if I think of anything.

Thanks.

EDIT: Added chart of what I think the firing cycle would be. Really curious if there's a seal that would do this or if each channel would need to be offset, such that a 3-way type actuation would be required. It would also need a seal or seals around the pump rod.

[JeepDVLZ45]

Cool! I’m not mechanical enough to know what the heck I’m looking at, BUT I used to wonder if it would be possible to turn an EMek into a pump.

I think you should get to work 😉

[nak81783]

Gotta make sure I can finish my Jeepers Cheapers build (which this wouldn't qualify for), and then I might give it a try.

[nak81783]

Cool! I’m not mechanical enough to know what the heck I’m looking at, BUT I used to wonder if it would be possible to turn an EMek into a pump.

I think you should get to work 😉

Still trying to wrap my own head around it. I forgot the trigger 3/4-way uses the forward channel to charge the front of the Gamma Core, while the aft channel charges the back of the Gamma Core AND vents to fire. I think that means it would not autotrigger. Trigger would have to be forward to allow back of Gamma Core to charge. However, a different transfer block with a Y off of the forward channel above the pump seal to the aft channel would allow autotrigger...I think...I don't know, it might throw off timing.

EDIT: Y off probably won't work. It'll give the forward portion of the Gamma Core a path to vent out the back of the trigger valve. How much of an effect on cycle, timing, efficiency, etc., I don't know, but I'm tabling the Y off for now.

[Psycho91]

Jack woods has said it over and over again that PE will never make a pump gun, he says there's already so many good options that he doesn't see the need

[ford]

Wood, Jack Wood.

If the market was there, I think they would do it. I think PE would be more likely to build a gel ball blaster than a pump right now tho =P

[nak81783]

Jack woods has said it over and over again that PE will never make a pump gun, he says there's already so many good options that he doesn't see the need

Understood. That's why it's my first bullet point.

With all the cool stuff people on MCB do, if the transfer block sealing can be simplified, I think this is well within the forum's capabilities.

[Psycho91]

It would be pretty neat though, it would pretty much be indestructible and always work lol

[nak81783]

Agreed. I love the Gamma Core.

[ford]

Heyo, I too for no reason have thought randomly about making the Emek a pump. I think you'd be better served considering how to make the trigger system the 'pump' mechanism than goofing with the Gamma Core.

Going even crazier, I know the high end CS2/CS3 has bluetooth, it'd be amazingly stupid/fun to build a bluetooth pump that paired with the board to only engage the trigger in tandem with the pump action.

[Ecapnation]

The gamma core is going to be very hard to make have an incomplete cycle.

I monkied with the idea of using the pals piston airport to puff a device that would block the feedport off until you pumped to reset the device and load a ball

Technically that could be done with springs or magnets

[nak81783]

Heyo, I too for no reason have thought randomly about making the Emek a pump. I think you'd be better served considering how to make the trigger system the 'pump' mechanism than goofing with the Gamma Core.

Going even crazier, I know the high end CS2/CS3 has bluetooth, it'd be amazingly stupid/fun to build a bluetooth pump that paired with the board to only engage the trigger in tandem with the pump action.

Great minds…

These are two of my other ideas, but I’m stuck on this one for now. I’m mechanical, so the electronics and programming scare me. Plus, I see an electric pump being shunned by the pump community even more than a mechanical pump without something interfacing with the bolt.

As Ecapnation stated, I’ve also thought about playing in the feed neck area.

[ford]

Yea, even if you weren't nervous about all that you'd have to contact Steve Monks at PE to try and figure out a way to let your peripheral fire the marker.... I'm sure they have nothing else to do =P

The feedneck idea is interesting... On the trigger side I've tried to think of a device that could replace the safety to make it a one shot sort of system.

[Trbo323]

One of the guys around here already made a emek pump.

I want to say it was either Rainmaker or XEMON

Went real simple and printed a new feedneck so it stops paint from dropping in until the pump handle is cycled. The mechanics of the market didn't change and you can swap between pump and semi by switching the feedneck

Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

[nak81783]

One of the guys around here already made a emek pump.

I want to say it was either Rainmaker or XEMON

Went real simple and printed a new feedneck so it stops paint from dropping in until the pump handle is cycled. The mechanics of the market didn't change and you can swap between pump and semi by switching the feedneck

Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

Trbo323 If you can find a link to that, I'd greatly appreciate it. Did it add a lot of bulk to the top of the marker?

[nak81783]

Round 2. ford Ecapnation or anyone else that wants to play. What are your thoughts on this? Parts are getting small, but based on inner workings of some real steel handguns, not outside realm of possibility. Mechanical instead of pneumatic. Looking inside an Etha 3M grip this morning, I think there's room.

In my head:
1. Could be a drop in cartridge, at least the portion that goes into the grip frame.
2. 3D printed body or similar needed to support pump arms, guide rod, handle, etc.
3. Minimal milling to grip to clear room for the sled.
4. It would be a very short pump stroke.
5. Would need to sort out spring contact points. Could reverse it - springs lift pins, pump sled with leaf springs (stronger than lift spring) as pin contact points, push down.

[ford]

I mean... maybe?

As a lazy software engineer I don't like messing with stuff that's already working as intended.

That's kind of why I wonder if the safety mechanism isn't the place to make a modification. It's already designed to stop the trigger. Running a small cable from the safety mechanism to the pump that engages the fire action feels simple-ish to me.

That said, I have no mechanical background so I have no idea how hard it would be to make any kind of piece that gets the job done. Maybe a first iteration is a new safety that literally switches to 'safe' after every trigger pull.