Fields/events to try First Strike

[Siress]

Thanks for the info dumps Magageddon and uv_halo ! Definitely sounds problematic...

Add me to the list for people interested in a FSR event within the confines of us funloving paintballers.

EDIT: In regard to the above...

[JeeperCreeper]

I got a couple FSR shooters you could try out if said events become a real thing

[JeepDVLZ45]

I think there might be space for one or two more at the single shot FSR games 🤫….like in most cases choose your company wisely and you’ll have a good time 👍🏻

[Chuck E Ducky]

There are talks of a FS friendly pistol game with the North East Pump group. I know the Ragnastock boys are down Creeper Customs built us a bunch of FS ready single shot PGP’s.

[Siress]

Thanks for the offer, JeeperCreeper! I'll excitedly take you up on it if/when able.

JeepDVLZ45 Are there single shot FSR games on the calendar at present? The group is everything...

I've got to say... having a typical pump or limited paint event where muzzle loading FSR is allowed if you chrono sufficiently (so round balls will be ~230fps per the above) sounds like a heckin' good time.

[JeepDVLZ45]

None yet (at lease not that I know of 😂)

I’m trying to get some outlaw fields situated, but my work schedule as been so crazy I haven’t been able to make as ton of progress.

The new timeline is to get something in the works late summer/early fall. I’ll keep you posted.

[Jonnydread]

I'm trying to picture what fields at Xtreme would be good for FSR. Maybe hyper if we all played back positions? The big woods field would be decent I think, but like Jesse said not many of their fields have the distance to really work well for FSR. I'm not huge on Friendly Fire, but if we did a private game there sometime that would be a good field for it.

[Impactfour]

I know not everyone is a big fan, but either Korea or the hill at warzone could be fun for fsr. Not sure if they allow them, but I can ask Jeff this weekend about it

[Jonnydread]

Impactfour, good idea man, there are a couple fields there that I think would work great for FSR given the size and uh, lack of bunkers lol

[Shaftski]

When i talked to jeff last year he said he could not find an insurer that would cover paintball airsoft and fsr. may have changed based on fsr astm certification though.

[uv_halo]

In regards to the comments about FSR biodegradability . They are "photodegradable" polystyrene in which the polymers will break down when exposed to sunlight (as mentioned previously). However, the "biodegradable" and "photodegradable" technical definitions are so loose that you could pilot the Exxon Valdez through it. In FSRs, they will take a very long time to break down and some believe that their breakdown will result in microplastics going into the environment. This is part of the reason why I don't believe they should come down in price: slow their consumption. Ideally, until a more eco friendly aerodynamic projectile comes to market.

[Impactfour]

Thanks for your honest input. As a marine biologist turned fisheries/aquaculture worker I consider myself an environmentally minded person in an already abused environment. Any small way I can avoid fucking more shit up is good to me, I'll probably avoid fsr rounds. I'm passing no judgement on those who use them, I have my own environmental debts to pay.

[osg paintball]

We allow them ONLY during our magfed games. They are not allowed during scenario games and regular walk on play for many of the reasons posted in this thread. For us, it's the following:

• Markers shooting FSR need to be chronographed with FSR. There's a large spike in FPS from roundball to FSR and players will chrono with roundball and then swap to FSR. It's extra steps for our staff.
• New players are on full blown information overload. Learning the gear, how to nagivate their first paintball games...we all remember that feeling. Now we add in, "BTW, there's also this other round you need to know about...". It's just too much.
• Complaints from players. For every person we make happy with FSR, we make 20 angry. We have always aimed to level the playing field from new players to experienced ones with better rental gear. FSR makes it much more difficult to do that.
• Lastly...margin. We barely make anything off the sale of a box of FSR. For us, to deal with everything listed above and not make anything off a case? It's a tough sell.

While all of the above does come across a bit negative, there are plenty of positives. They shoot incredible...substantially better than roundball. Alot of the perks of pump play with a better round, so we get the draw. It changes how fields are played which is a welcome change for many. It can be a blast. There are a couple guys at our field who have "magfed speedball" setups. A lot of fields have magfed style days worth checking out if FSR is your jam. This year we have two more days. August 12th and October 15th.

[Jonnydread]

Thanks for the info! That’s all very reasonable and well considered. Do you allow them in private games?

[uv_halo]

We allow them ONLY during our magfed games. They are not allowed during scenario games and regular walk on play for many of the reasons posted in this thread. For us, it's the following:

• Markers shooting FSR need to be chronographed with FSR. There's a large spike in FPS from roundball to FSR and players will chrono with roundball and then swap to FSR. It's extra steps for our staff.
• New players are on full blown information overload. Learning the gear, how to nagivate their first paintball games...we all remember that feeling. Now we add in, "BTW, there's also this other round you need to know about...". It's just too much.
• Complaints from players. For every person we make happy with FSR, we make 20 angry. We have always aimed to level the playing field from new players to experienced ones with better rental gear. FSR makes it much more difficult to do that.
• Lastly...margin. We barely make anything off the sale of a box of FSR. For us, to deal with everything listed above and not make anything off a case? It's a tough sell.

While all of the above does come across a bit negative, there are plenty of positives. They shoot incredible...substantially better than roundball. Alot of the perks of pump play with a better round, so we get the draw. It changes how fields are played which is a welcome change for many. It can be a blast. There are a couple guys at our field who have "magfed speedball" setups. A lot of fields have magfed style days worth checking out if FSR is your jam. This year we have two more days. August 12th and October 15th.

I wanted to take some time and reflect on this before I responded as there is a lot of coherence between how I think about them and, you think about them.

I absolutely detest the idea of folks chronoing with roundball and, then playing with FS rounds. For both a safety reason (as you mentioned) as well as a moral reason. If you've got enough money for FS rounds, you have enough to Chrono, period.

I don't know if I agree on the concept of info overload. I'm the guy who's been the 'serious' woodsballer (Head to toe and playing equipment camo properly matched to the season, Ghillie's at big games, a red dot on my gun) for over 10yrs of consecutive, season to season, walk-on play. "Are you a sniper?" ", "That gun must be super accurate" (because of a sight), "Longer barrels shoot farther", were all phrases I heard on the field, by players experiencing their first game, years before First Strikes came out. Players assume that paintball is something like war, armed conflict, (as seen on TV, or Film) call of duty, etc where there are multiple 'weapons' and projectiles. Who remembers the disillusion when they came across or threw their first paintball 'grenade'? Or, have heard the new player mention paintball flamethrowers, RPGs, etc. The point is that their imaginations are running wild, and more often than not, experienced players (at least the sociable ones) are debunking these things for the new players, on the field.

I bought a Tiberius Arms T9 and First Strike rounds in 2009. I checked with the field management before I used them on the field. Out of the seven fields I directly approached, five of them accepted them. I was the first person at each of these locations to use them so, I ran into a lot of new players. I drew attention everywhere I went: The chrono station, the staging areas and even the sidelines. New players noticed that my gun didn't have a hopper and asked about it. I'd point out that my gun uses a magazine and shoots special projectiles, but only has eight shots. They'd immediately set to counting my mags (I had four on my pack). They'd ask about them going farther, I'd explain that they actually aren't fired faster but, they don't slow down as much, so just as safe. They'd say "I'm looking out for you" or, "I'm glad I'm on your team". There's a dynamic with just one person using them. It's a bit different if you have multiples and team balancing becomes more important.

When it comes to multiples, I honestly have concerns. These rounds are essentially supposed to be like a sniper round, especially given their price (which isn't going to come down to tounrey paint prices due to the manufacturing costs). Unfortunately, just like the paintball ROF wars, a substantial user base wants the ability to fire FS rounds like they have roundball (i.e., they want drum mags and full auto, or use them in CQB, or they want them to become much cheaper so they can shoot more of them). This inevitably would result in the same old game of paintball where everyone is shooting the same projectile, laning, and snapshooting just like standard roundball but, over a longer distance. Personally, I would be fine with playing restrictions to prevent this like: Restricting the number of mags or, number of rounds I can use in a match (maybe one shot for every other player on the opposition). Balancing one FS player vs two experienced players. etc. This can be managed / enforced if FPO is in effect.

I've mentioned pricing in passing. This is a problem area. In my opinion, they need to be priced high to reduce the likelihood of them being spammed on the field. First Strike is limited in their ability to price them lower by the manufacturing techniques and materials, and recently, they raised prices a bit to compensate for the economy. This doesn't leave a big margin for FPO options. When I was playing with them regularly (2010- 2014), I was using a 100rd box for a full day of play. This cost me just as much as RP Scherer Marballizer at $69.00 at retail), the most expensive paint available at the time, where all of the fields around me allowed BYOP. This is a reasonable price/performance ratio in my opinion but, I think I'm the minority.

[Jonnydread]

To the point about information overload, I think it depends on the player. I think kids who are gung-ho about trying out blood sport and are excited about it wouldn't have any issues learning about FSR, but the kids who are tentative and nervous about the idea of paintball in general would be the ones struggling to wrap their heads around an entirely different kind of round. Either way I understand why they're not allowed in co-mingled open play, but your point is valid.

I do agree with you that the price of FSR being a limiting factor may ultimately be a good thing. IMO rounds like that aren't really meant to be spammed out of a drum mag. Hell when I use my 20rd Helix mags (compared to hand loading single shot) it almost feels like overkill.

My major issue with FSR is, as others have mentioned, the environmental aspect of using polystyrene fins that don't readily break down. I don't play a ton of magfed/FSR, but when I do I always make an attempt to pick up the fins I find on the ground and toss them into my dump pouch. I have the same issue with stock class play and 12 grams, I hate producing that much waste, but I make every effort to clean up after myself and the group so we're not just littering the field with fins and spent 12ies. Now if they come up with a truly biodegradable first strike round, I'd be super into that.

[uv_halo]

Jonnydread I think folks who are actually timid about the game are the ones who would benefit most from low impact paintball. Get your head around the game then move up.

I totally get the environmental aspect of it. The only way that I mentally balance it out is that I shoot about 100rds in a day of play, and there are many more greatly damaging products in use by way many more people (I'm looking at you, polypropylene fleece) that are more damaging to the environment. I'm not justifying it but, rather I'm not an activist enough to remove all plastics from my life or my activities. That being said, like you, I would totally welcome a more eco-friendly round.