Tippmann magfed questions

[JOESPUD27]

Honestly if I was to buy a magfed marker it would be the Planet Eclipse EMF100. It’s not cheap (550) but they function great. It’s one of the few magfed markers that are going to shoot good out of the box without modifying or tinkering.

If you value reliability just save up and get the PE marker and be done with it.

like this… $400
https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...100-and-flemek

Inception makes some cool Tec 9 looking boy kits for them too.

I agree, and not because you plugged my sale.

I've owned many TMCs and MG100s. It's no contest, save up the extra and use the best.

[The Inflicted]

Does anyone else here think this new Tippmann (owned by Kore ) was absolutely brain dead not to include First Strike capability in the TMC!??

Would they have even had to license the technology, since it is just a D-shape feed port into the gun?

Even so, how pricey could it have been, since the cheap Kingman Hammer 7 had the FS capability?

the TMC has been a good seller (they're everywhere) but they would have sold like hotcakes , if buyers could have got into a FS capable magfed gun at that cheap price!!

I'm not sure what was stopping them from making the TMC/Stormer First Strike capable, since the earlier Tippmann TCR was designed for First Strikes in mind. I can only assume that Tippmann knew that it was going to take a bit more tweaking of the bolt/breech design to allow them AND a completely different and potentially less-reliable magazine design to enable them to load the things correctly and eventually concluded that the company was better off not having to deal with customers dissatisfied with what is ultimately a niche capability.


Also puzzling is why the Empire Trracer was made to load First Strikes but never got a proper magazine for it and the JT DL-9 wasn't milled for First Strikes but came packed with a magazine which was.

Personally I've dabbled with making my TMC First-Strike capable using an Engler Zetamag adapter and dremeling my breech opening and bolt but the results were anything but reliable. Even testing this thing is expensive and time consuming, and I've since moved on to the EMF-100 which is a better platform anyway.

[Trbo323]

I'm not sure what was stopping them from making the TMC/Stormer First Strike capable, since the earlier Tippmann TCR was designed for First Strikes in mind.

You're kidding right? This is what tippmann always does. It's the same reason why the 98c and a5 (and m98 to an extent) were all the same platform but almost none of the parts would transfer between the markers.

Tippmann wants to force you into buying another marker

They already have the magazines and markers with bodies that will accept them, all they had to do was import those into the cad program when they were designing it but they chose not to.

They are not dumb, they know that most mag feed players will eventually want to shoot first strike so sell them a cheap marker that is round ball only, sell them some stuff like bolts and then when they want to shoot FS force them to buy a new marker because in order to convert the tmc they are looking at custom or full body replacement


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[Toestr]

Ok, but where is the FS capable gun? The TMC has been out for 5 years at least. The ideal time for a FS capable gun has come and gone many people have purchased something else. The TCR went away around the time of the TMC. Tippmann has a FS kit for the TiPX, but I wouldn't really put that in the same category as something like a TMC.

[The Inflicted]

You're kidding right? This is what tippmann always does. It's the same reason why the 98c and a5 (and m98 to an extent) were all the same platform but almost none of the parts would transfer between the markers.

Tippmann wants to force you into buying another marker

They already have the magazines and markers with bodies that will accept them, all they had to do was import those into the cad program when they were designing it but they chose not to.

They are not dumb, they know that most mag feed players will eventually want to shoot first strike so sell them a cheap marker that is round ball only, sell them some stuff like bolts and then when they want to shoot FS force them to buy a new marker because in order to convert the tmc they are looking at custom or full body replacement


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Except that Tippmann doesn't sell a more expensive marker that accepts First Strike rounds.
Neither does Kingman, or JT, or Empire, or any of the other brands under the Kore/GI umbrella.
I have a hard time believing that there's an intentional business strategy on the part of Kore to encourage their users to buy products from their competitors.

The reality is that Tippmann/Kore probably reached the conclusion that they couldn't make the TMC/Stormer First Strike compatible without either A) increasing production costs or B) compromising reliability for most of their end users, and even if they could modify the design in a way that did allow FS use, all that would do is further promote the use of a type of paintball they don't make anyway.

[Trbo323]

Except that Tippmann doesn't sell a more expensive marker that accepts First Strike rounds.
Neither does Kingman, or JT, or Empire, or any of the other brands under the Kore/GI umbrella.

Not anymore they don't but you have to remember that the tmc was released before gi bought tippmann when they were producing the tcr.

So if you have the tmc and want to shoot first strike, tippmann made it inconvenient to convert the tmc but just so happened to have another marker that was more expensive and could shoot FS

And yes, this is or at least was intentional. For the longest time they produced the m98 and 98c, requiring them to have 2 separate molds all so the m98 could be sold for what, like 20 bucks cheaper but it could NOT accept most of the upgrades that tippmann sold. If you bought a m98 as your first marker to save a little money but a year or two down the road wanted to upgrade it you had to buy basically the same marker again in the 98c.

Get the 98c and get some upgrades, want to move on to the a5? Great, but even though it's still a tippmann inline blowback none of the upgrades you got for the 98c will work on it, hell they even changed the barrel threads.

It's called the "tippmann upgrade treadmill"

Edit: how would the tippmann guns stack up against something like the Valken/Milsig M17?

Ok back on track.

The m17 is far superior. It has maybe 1/2 of the parts of the tippmann, has a regulator and is a modified automag platform so it's spool valve. It can also do mechanical full auto which, while a little pointless, is still kind of cool i have to admit. Much easier to work on than I was expecting out of a milsim platform.

Just to throw another option out there, have you considered an EMF? Based on the emek platform, FS from the factory, very good shooters decent chunk of upgrades out there and reliable as a sunrise.

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[Toestr]

Tippmann was owned by GI when both the TCR and TMC came out. As best I can tell the TCR came out early 2014 and the TMC came out late 2016. There might have been a bit of overlap in their marketing, but not much. I'm willing to bet the TCR was out of production by the time the TMC was released.

[Jonnydread]

I know that MCS/RAP-4 doesn't have the best reputation, but I have a Bolt pump (98-based) that can shoot roundball and FSR and it works great. I haven't had any issues with it that weren't user-error.

[Brokeass_baller]

Same with mine. I sold off my TMC years ago in favor of the Tacamo kits. I now have three of them.

[Jonnydread]

Brokeass_baller right dude? They’re great! I love rocking FSR with my Bolt. Plinking faces with irons sights clear across the field

[Brokeass_baller]

Yeah for real! Eliminating Tippmann haters with a Tippmann never gets old. And I find the mags quick enough to reload FSR once you get into the rhythm. My Vortex is my favorite. I really like the way that specific Lok-Bolt works. Plus it's unusually heavy and I think that makes it more realistic, which is fun.

[The Inflicted]

Not anymore they don't but you have to remember that the tmc was released before gi bought tippmann when they were producing the tcr.

This is not accurate. GI bought Tippmann in 2013, before the TCR was released (2014) and several years before the TMC (late 2016).

So if you have the tmc and want to shoot first strike, tippmann made it inconvenient to convert the tmc but just so happened to have another marker that was more expensive and could shoot FS

As Toestr pointed out, the TCR had already been discontinued by the time Tippmann released the TMC. This was partially because Tippmann's uprange guns at the time were the newly-released Stryker series, which used a combination of features pulled from across Kore/GI's corporate lineup.

Despite its ability to load First Strikes, the TCR was a pretty weird gun and was never a strong seller. Its failure may be part of the reason Tippmann has been unenthusiastic about developing more First Strike-capable guns.

And yes, this is or at least was intentional. For the longest time they produced the m98 and 98c, requiring them to have 2 separate molds all so the m98 could be sold for what, like 20 bucks cheaper but it could NOT accept most of the upgrades that tippmann sold. If you bought a m98 as your first marker to save a little money but a year or two down the road wanted to upgrade it you had to buy basically the same marker again in the 98c.

I don't know if that's accurate either. Even after the 98 Custom replaced the Model 98 in Tippmann's advertised lineup in 2001, both guns were produced in such massive numbers that retailers still had large supplies of the older Model 98 in stock well into 2001, and there was no change to the MAP pricing when the new version started shipping. Retailers would probably have been free to discount the older M98s below MAP before the prices could be dropped on the new 98 Customs, which they did in 2002. The last few runs of 98 body shells that Tippmann produced were primarily used to fulfil orders at big box retailers like Wal-Mart, and Tippmann even took the effort to mill those receivers after molding to give them channels to allow RT pistons and fittings to be installed.

Get the 98c and get some upgrades, want to move on to the a5? Great, but even though it's still a tippmann inline blowback none of the upgrades you got for the 98c will work on it, hell they even changed the barrel threads.

The older Tippmann "fine" barrel threads never actually went away- Up until the A5 was introduced (and possibly a little after) Tippmann was still manufacturing the Pro/Carbine as a nicer, and slightly more expensive alternative to the M98/98C which uses the older Pro/Am and Pro/Lite threads. I've never fully understood why Tippmann never settled on one of their two native barrel threads, even through today, though I assume that it's mostly to do with the "fine" threads being easier to mill into an extruded receiver or separate barrel adapter and the "coarse" 98 threads being more appropriate when the receiver is cast in separate halves without an adapter in between.

[Trbo323]

The older Tippmann "fine" barrel threads never actually went away- Up until the A5 was introduced (and possibly a little after) Tippmann was still manufacturing the Pro/Carbine as a nicer, and slightly more expensive alternative to the M98/98C which uses the older Pro/Am and Pro/Lite threads. I've never fully understood why Tippmann never settled on one of their two native barrel threads, even through today, though I assume that it's mostly to do with the "fine" threads being easier to mill into an extruded receiver or separate barrel adapter and the "coarse" 98 threads being more appropriate when the receiver is cast in separate halves without an adapter in between.

Well I guess my time-frames may be off a bit, I'm still standing by this though. I've dealt with way too many tippmanns through the years to believe that none of their design choices are all coincidence and don't force players into buying more tippmann products (before gi that is). Some of it is saving production costs I'm sure but it's also that tippmann makes those production cost cuts and then A) produces a marker that is still more expensive than a similarly equipped competitor, why does the buyer not see these savings? And B) makes these choices with apparent disregard to how it will effect the end user. Just take apart a 98c and count the individual parts and realize how many of them are there just to allow the use of a cast clamshell body, it's insane. Meanwhile JT can make basically the same marker in the tac 5 with easily half the parts because it's not a clamshell (I'm not sure if it's cast or milled though). But JT saves a bunch of money because they don't need half the hardware, passes that on to the end user and everyone just goes "it's JT, is cheap because it's bad" I'm not saying it's a great marker but it's at least on par with the 98 in my book.

Yes I know the A5 barrel threads are recycled but that's part of my point. They could have cast the 98 barrel threads into the body of the a5. This would have helped tons of players who wanted to upgrade from the 98c and already had a nice barrel for it. But instead tippmann decided to not only reuse the pro carbine threads, but have to produce a separate milled part just to make them work in the a5 body. Unless you were some die hard pro carbine fan and just happened to still have aftermarket barrels around for that marker, you were looking at purchasing a new barrel. The vast vast majority of tippmann owners at that point had the 98c as that's what was dominating field rentals at the time so that's what the new players wanted. These players who got tippmann provided and aftermarket parts were forced to buy all those same upgrades again for the a5 if they wanted to keep the upgrades once they got the new marker.

Hell, I have a bunch of markers right now from tippmann, they used a really dumb ASA setup that uses a standard bolt on the back but this weird hook and loop setup in the front all so tippmann could delete the 5 cents worth of hardware it would be to make it a standard 2 hole setup. Want to upgrade to an on/off ASA? Can't be done, you have to buy an all new marker with a more traditional 2 hole setup.

Gi has made a lot of changes, primarily cutting down the tippmann lineup so it's almost exclusively the Gryphon in different bodies. Smart from a production point of view. This is basically what spyder has been doing for decades, same internals, different externals. While it's not 100%, if I have a spyder and get some upgrades for it then want to move on to a different spyder, I stand a much much better chance of those upgrades being able to transfer as well

Anyway sorry that was long, I'm tired and rambling

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