Automag frame designs

[ATBen]

Good point. I'd actually like to do a single trigger y frame.

Somebody just posted a picture of that on a paintball fabricators group I think?

Superman might know.

[Magageddon]

Good point. I'd actually like to do a single trigger y frame.

knownothingmags over on AO made some 3d printed single y frames some time ago, but not out of metal

[dano_____]

Single trigger y-frame for sure. And match the original agd y-frame lines to use .45 panels.

[Drachen]

I like this idea also. I thought about buying the printed version, but I get worried about how long it would hold up in cold weather.

Big fan of y frames and even bigger fan of single finger frames.

[rawbutter]

We need to talk.

I would love to see a pistol grip modeled after a real firearm, like an AR-24 or a CZ-75. Both of these pistols are very comfortable to shoot (especially the AR-24), and because they're already mass produced, you can easily find molded rubber grips to fit the frame. The problem with most aftermarket frames is that there are no good grip options besides aluminum panels (which many people, myself included, really don't like). If you want to use paintball grips that are already on the market, therefore, you're stuck with 45s or 90s. But if you base your frame on a firearm that already exists, you will have other options. Plus, the AR-24 and CZ-75 grips both have screw holes that are NOT in the center of the grips. That leaves more flexibility for adding an LPR inside the frame for sleepers.

(I suppose you could also find someone to make you 3D printed grips, but I can't imagine those feeling or looking as nice as rubber ones. And they will be more expensive.)

Personally, I would also love to see an aftermarket grip that can accommodate my SPAR valve. The biggest stumbling block that I've run into with my SPAR valves is that I can't make them small enough to fit into any frame as-is, so I have to modify every frame I make, which greatly increases the cost. People have to ship their frame to me, I have to spend time milling it out, and then I have to ship the whole frame back to them. All that adds about $75 to the cost. It would be awesome if there was instead a frame out there that was ready to go, kind of like how Luke's T-Rex pneumag mod is a drop-in attachment to most of his frames. Then I could sell my SPAR valve upgrade for about $100.

The good news in all this is that I live in Fredericksburg, which is less than an hour from Tappahannock, so collaboration would be easy. I've also spent a TON of time modifying non-AGD frames to work with Automags, so I have a good understanding of trigger mechanics. I've even designed safety switches that work more like real firearms, so if that's a route you want to take, I can help with that too. Just let me know if that's something you'd like to do.

[alpha_q_up]

Id love to see both a firearm style frame and a collab between you two, I finally got around to getting my Spar Valved marker up and going and love it, if there was an option to get a drop in for a frame I'd definitely be interested in picking one up

[Rusty Brass]

CZ-75 anything will always get my attention.

[rawbutter]

In my original gauging interest thread that happened before The Hack, there were a LOT of guys who wanted a drop-in valve. Of course, mostly they wanted it because it would be cheaper that way, so I'm not sure those people would also want to buy another frame, but it's something.

[KMDPB]

We need to talk.

I would love to see a pistol grip modeled after a real firearm, like an AR-24 or a CZ-75. Both of these pistols are very comfortable to shoot (especially the AR-24), and because they're already mass produced, you can easily find molded rubber grips to fit the frame. The problem with most aftermarket frames is that there are no good grip options besides aluminum panels (which many people, myself included, really don't like). If you want to use paintball grips that are already on the market, therefore, you're stuck with 45s or 90s. But if you base your frame on a firearm that already exists, you will have other options. Plus, the AR-24 and CZ-75 grips both have screw holes that are NOT in the center of the grips. That leaves more flexibility for adding an LPR inside the frame for sleepers.

(I suppose you could also find someone to make you 3D printed grips, but I can't imagine those feeling or looking as nice as rubber ones. And they will be more expensive.)

Personally, I would also love to see an aftermarket grip that can accommodate my SPAR valve. The biggest stumbling block that I've run into with my SPAR valves is that I can't make them small enough to fit into any frame as-is, so I have to modify every frame I make, which greatly increases the cost. People have to ship their frame to me, I have to spend time milling it out, and then I have to ship the whole frame back to them. All that adds about $75 to the cost. It would be awesome if there was instead a frame out there that was ready to go, kind of like how Luke's T-Rex pneumag mod is a drop-in attachment to most of his frames. Then I could sell my SPAR valve upgrade for about $100.

The good news in all this is that I live in Fredericksburg, which is less than an hour from Tappahannock, so collaboration would be easy. I've also spent a TON of time modifying non-AGD frames to work with Automags, so I have a good understanding of trigger mechanics. I've even designed safety switches that work more like real firearms, so if that's a route you want to take, I can help with that too. Just let me know if that's something you'd like to do.

that's awesome that you live in Fredericksburg, I love swimming in the river up there! I'd love to collab! Maybe you could sketch something up, And I'll make it ? I like the cz75 idea I love czs and love the ccm 86 frames.

[rawbutter]

Maybe you could sketch something up, And I'll make it ? I like the cz75 idea I love czs and love the ccm 86 frames.

That sounds great. I'm glad you're open to collaborating.

As for a sketch, the best I can do is pencil on paper. If you need something more detailed than that, maybe we can find a 3D scan of a CZ-75 somewhere? Or....you know, I've had the idea before of buying a cheap Airsoft pistol, milling off all the unnecessary parts, and then mating that frame to an Automag. In the end, I never did it because I didn't think a plastic pistol would be strong enough for a paintball marker, but if you just want a prototype for measurements, that might be a good way to start. (Hopefully one of the other makers on here can add their own insights about this.)

Before we get to that, however, I'm curious about your plan for all this. What exactly are you working with? Are you using CNC? How many frames are you hoping to make? What price point are you aiming for? Will the final product be raw aluminum? Anodized? Cerakoted? The reason I'm asking all this is because there have been plenty of people and companies who have made aftermarket AGD frames in the past, and most of them give up after one model because it's simply not profitable enough. The demand really isn't there anymore. I personally think there are ways to make an aftermarket AGD frame more appealing, but mostly my idea boils down to a go-big-or-go-home approach, which is pretty risky.

[KMDPB]

That sounds great. I'm glad you're open to collaborating.

As for a sketch, the best I can do is pencil on paper. If you need something more detailed than that, maybe we can find a 3D scan of a CZ-75 somewhere? Or....you know, I've had the idea before of buying a cheap Airsoft pistol, milling off all the unnecessary parts, and then mating that frame to an Automag. In the end, I never did it because I didn't think a plastic pistol would be strong enough for a paintball marker, but if you just want a prototype for measurements, that might be a good way to start. (Hopefully one of the other makers on here can add their own insights about this.)

Pencil and paper is cool, I did that type of thing to make an 86 spyder frame. Some people call that kitbashing. I made a replica ccm 86 frame cut it in half then cut up a spyder frame and mated the 2 then I made a mold of that shape and cast it out of aluminium. As for quantity and cost it really wouldn't be to make money just a fun project for me and maybe a few other people if they wanted it. I've found with things in life once you try making money off of something in takes the fun out of it.

[rawbutter]

Fascinating. A cast aluminum frame. I haven't seen one of those in a while. How much does it cost to make something like that? And what's the surface finish like? Can you even anodize cast aluminum, or do you have to paint it?

[KMDPB]

Fascinating. A cast aluminum frame. I haven't seen one of those in a while. How much does it cost to make something like that? And what's the surface finish like? Can you even anodize cast aluminum, or do you have to paint it?

Maybe 20 bucks give or take. You can get excellent surface finish with ceramic investment casting, the frame in the photo was investment cast in a plaster silica mold so the surface finish isn't great but I polished it afterwards. You can anodize cast aluminum contrary to popular belief, it just has to be closer to the pure aluminum side of aluminum alloys. Alloys with alot of silicon wont anodize well if at all.

[rawbutter]

Maybe 20 bucks give or take. You can get excellent surface finish with ceramic investment casting, the frame in the photo was investment cast in a plaster silica mold so the surface finish isn't great but I polished it afterwards. You can anodize cast aluminum contrary to popular belief, it just has to be closer to the pure aluminum side of aluminum alloys. Alloys with alot of silicon wont anodize well if at all.

$20 is a great starting price point, although I would personally be willing to pay more for a better surface finish that can be anodized or cerakoted. If I wanted a frame like this for my old classic Automag, I wouldn't care much about the look, and a rough casting with black cerakote would be fine. But I wanted to add this frame to my nice ULE mag that's all gloss black, I would want the best surface finish possible.

What all are you comfortable doing? Can you do this ceramic investment casting, or were you just sharing information? If you're only comfortable with plaster silica molds, then that's what you should do and just tailor the frame for lower-end Automags.

Also, I like your idea of kit-bashing. I could maybe do something like that with a CZ75 frame and an Automag frame.

[KMDPB]

$20 is a great starting price point, although I would personally be willing to pay more for a better surface finish that can be anodized or cerakoted. If I wanted a frame like this for my old classic Automag, I wouldn't care much about the look, and a rough casting with black cerakote would be fine. But I wanted to add this frame to my nice ULE mag that's all gloss black, I would want the best surface finish possible.

What all are you comfortable doing? Can you do this ceramic investment casting, or were you just sharing information? If you're only comfortable with plaster silica molds, then that's what you should do and just tailor the frame for lower-end Automags.

Also, I like your idea of kit-bashing. I could maybe do something like that with a CZ75 frame and an Automag frame.

I just did the plaster for that cause its significantly cheaper. I have ceramics for shell casting. Message me if you wanna chat more about it .

[rawbutter]

I just did the plaster for that cause its significantly cheaper. I have ceramics for shell casting. Message me if you wanna chat more about it .

Well, the more I think about it, the more I realize that you've already done 90% of the work. You could make a brand new frame based on a CZ75 grip, but it really wouldn't be that much different than the 86 Spyder frame you've already done. Would it? So, I think you should just adapt that frame to make it fit an Automag.

If you could make me a copy of that Spyder frame and send it to me, then I could toss it on my milling machine and make some modifications to make it AGD and SPAR valve compatible. I would only have to cut off the front part that sticks out, probably drill some new screw holes for mounting, hollow out the frame a little for the SPAR valve, and maybe do some work on the trigger. Then I could send that modified frame back to you, you could make a new ceramic casting, and then boom...you're done. This new frame wouldn't have a 1.5 trigger, but if you're just doing this for fun and you aren't planning on making a lot of them, there's no need to add that in if it isn't something you want.

[alpha_q_up]

I've been lurking and stalking this thread, and I like seeing the conversation between you two, the open conversation I'm seeing is getting me excited for a future builds, and I can't wait to see what comes of this

[KMDPB]

So I've decided I'm going to make a y grip first. Would anyone be willing to give me some rough dimensions of the og y grip? I sold mine a few years ago.

[alpha_q_up]

Once I get home I can take some pics of mine but I only have a tape measure at the house if you want more specifics, I can bring my y frame to my work and get some calipers on specific parts or if you really want I can ship you the 3d printed single trigger I have.

[KMDPB]

Thanks! I mainly just need the width

[alpha_q_up]

Let me know if you need me to get any other measurements and if you want me to get more accurate measurements

[KMDPB]

Awesome thank you!