Starting a Pneumag build, general questions and parts sourcing?

[SR_matt]

Ok so looks like I may be in a situation that will allow me to accelerate my pneumag build substantially so I am starting to look for parts and all but have a few general questions and want to see how crazy I am for wanting to track down certain parts. This is going to be a really nice build that I will do a full anno on so I am going through every little detail in my planning and build. Hopefully I can start getting big parts together by Feb.

Since I’ve been out of the sport for oh, 14 years at this point, a lot of parts I know have gone out of production and a bunch of stuff was made in my absence.

I am most likely going to be using a Lukes T-Rex and CHL frame from him. It seems like the best plug and play option and I have only heard good things. Since I don’t have the space or tool access to do much modding of other frames is there any reason to even look at any other options in my situation?

I am not sure I really want the full length rail as I tend to like a shorter hand grip position. Is there any way to use the shorter rails with say a Deadly Winds CF fore grip or a Lukes CF fore grip or will the CHL trigger frame interfere? I know his site says that it can interfere with forgeries but I am not sure if the CF ones are thin and tight enough to give the clearance. If I have to use the extended grips then I am not sure I see a point of not just using the longer rail.

Next big thing comes to ASA’s, Are there any ASAs out there that would work with out modification that are not slanted? I know Luke makes angled and side kick ASAs but I like a flat simple on/off ASA. I know he can modify the CP ones but I am not a big fan of them visually. Worst case would I simply be able to find a direct mount ASA, drill it to match up with the frame hole and drill a recess cut for an o-ring (obviously I would need to debur the inside and probably use an end mill to cut the recess, when it all said and done it may be cheaper just to find a machinist to modify it for me but we will see)?



Parts Sourcing Questions:

What feedbacks do people recommend at this point? Probably looking for a rather low profile one and would prefer a lever lock.

For rails I am really looking for something low profile and super lightened. I know theres a bunch of rare stuff running around but obviously it’s hit and miss on what I could find. I did see Bearded works had really trimmed back a rail a while ago on his build with the reg delete on the classic valve which looked like it could be interesting for this build. So basically, any suggestions? I would prefer it to not just be a stock rail that was super milled out internally as I want the exterior to be a bit more sleek.

Is it going to be impossible to find a Deadly Winds CF fore grip at this point? I know it’s been probably 10 years since they did a last run. Any other recommendations for a similar super sleek fore grip if it will be a food errand (would be looking more for a round profile probably)?


Other questions:

Has anyone figured out a way to make hardlines not be a huge pain without shaving the Z lock pin? I was wondering if using the nicer CCM style macro fittings gave enough rotation to allow the valve to rotate or if thats just not really possible? (And I know if I did hardline that the CF fore grip doesnt really match up so I am still debating this one). If its still just a PITA I will likely just go with the direct from ASA with a SS braided line and wrap it to match the marker.

And I think finally, who was it that was successfully anodizing X Valves? With the color scheme I am planing I think it would be nice to have something other than black for the valve.

[SR_matt]

Oh and also, SHP tanks and pneumag? Is it ok? Ideally I would like to just use the same tank between my traditional mag and this but not sure if the SHP will cause any issues with the T-Rex.

[SR_matt]

I run the SHP at 925 psi, it's more about the LPR and if it will handle the high input pressures, the T-Rex will take whatever you put at it but the better performance is with the lower input pressure from the LPR

Is the performance better with lower LPR pressure simply because the trigger return from the on/off will be more effective/faster? I thought I had read somewhere that higher in put to the T-Rex (like 1/4-1/2 turn) gave more "RT" kind of to the trigger (but granted I also thought that was on your how to set your LPR page but when I read it now I am not sure if my brain made that up or if I just saw someone else making some claim about it).

Edit: wow my reading comprehension is horrible lately, it says clear as day that lower creates more RT... I really need to get checked for ADHD.

[SR_matt]

Fair on the fore grip. I guess I will just need to suck it up and deal with the extra length lol.

On the ASA comment I was referring to the bottom tank, not the vert. On the micro ASA it just looked more angled than that but I also I havent seen a whole lot of pictures of it, most have been the side kick. I have the old style cage ASA on my mag with a 68ci tank and the marker ends up at perfect height so was just a bit worried that it may either move the tank higher or drop my normal line of sight. I may just have to dry fit it all and see how it feels.

I was only planning to have a pro style rail, no reason to complicate my backup parts bin with more varieties... even if I did order the wrong sear 18 years ago and have it sitting there still haha

On the hardlines, the comments I kept seeing was that they made removing the valve a lot harder as they didnt give enough play to rotate the valve out of the z lock without having to remove the fitting. I believe I had seen Doc even say he just shaved the pin down to deal with that (granted I cant say that I ever felt my Z lock really held at all on my traditional mag so maybe tolerances are a bit different than on the older RT and classics). I take it that you are not having any issues getting valves out easily? I have ran the big loop of hose on my traditional mag and never really minded it, granted I also got it covered with heat shrink so it doesnt look at bad. but yeah ive seen some that are kind of bad looking.

Good to know on your premade hard lines, I will need to decide about the fore grip, not sure the more squared off style is really what I am going for but I also really dont like the bike grips or big huge gas through on the front.

Interesting to hear that those fittings are a pain. the diagram I saw on Nummech made them look like they were pretty simple, but I guess they also have more places to fail.

I will probably email you in the next couple months once I know for sure I will be in the position to kick off this build. I also need to decide how much I want to tinker my self with it or just have it built. Putting it together is a good bit of the fun and I can always use a good excuse to buy another tool if I want to do the hardiness my self.

Much appreciated Luke.

[FredMnkyDad10]

So many ways to setup your build.
Seen the lpr placed on the on/off asa, opposite from the macro line. I think there been a couple that put it up by the valve. Sleepers inside the frames.

One of the best sleepers I remember was using a classic mag. Cant remember for sure the frame, but likely it was intelli or benchmark. The body and rail were classic. Build had the lpr hose run inside the rail to the vasa. The lpr was connected to the vasa. And lpr and hose were wrapped in a foam bike grip hiding it. Without looking closely you would only see a basic mag.

I may know someone who has and willing to part with deadly wind cf foregrip.

Welcome back to the fold. Cant wait to see your build.

[SR_matt]

Yeah I do think I want it to be a sleeper. The LPR on the bottom ASA just feels sketchy and under the barrel just gives me impulse vibes a bit hahaha. Plus I am sure running 12 inches of micro hose vs 2-3 does have a performance reduction (it may only be on paper but I understand just enough fluid dynamics to know longer pipes are worse than shorter pipes… granted I also run a big ass 12 inch loop of SS hose instead of a gas through grip so maybe I need to listen to my self).

and if said someone let me know price on the foregrip I likely would be interested even if I end up using it for another project down the road haha.

[SR_matt]

That or you can go with the MP90, these are shorter than the Angel style frames, the MP90 is my personal favorite compared to every grip frame ever made for an Automag, bar none



My Sidekick and Micro Wedge is all about the height of the marker when shouldered. The design was dialed in before the CAD was even started on both the SK and MW. I designed a 3d tool/part that gave me unlimited adjustability in all directions and was designed so I could pull all the necessary diemension and angles from in order to recreate it in CAD, in other words I was able to dial in all the parameters upfront then designed around the fitment. There was no guessing or throwing schit at the wall to see what stuck. It's engendered shooting position, also moves fittings, gauges, and airline away from you wrist.



Not an issue using my parts. I did away with the Z lock, my rails have a straight groove for the pin, it's never been a problem in more than a decade.



I dont know, I think mine are pretty comfy



I detest them (all) I refuse to use them in any build because they tend to leak more often than not. I let people include them in their builds but if I'm assembling, testing and tuning, I wont install the fittings, that's entirely up to the customer, in my experience it's just a waste of time, that said people seem to not mind the fuss, me I hate air leaks..




First time builders always say that and they always end up sending it back to me to setup (lol) I have two in the shop now that started out as you suggest. It's not that it's difficult to assemble, tech and tuning is what gets most guys


No problem

I was eyeing the m90. I do like the short rail obviously but never had a 90 frame. I will have to try my friends old mag he picked up in the 00s that had a 90 frame and some really nice after market body (totally going to spell it wrong, delara, dalra, the old heads will know what I’m trying to remember). I like the look of the 45 style and 86* frames more but need to balance that with comfort… at the end of the day, paintball is a fashion show hahahaha


Yeah I get the ergonomics you went for there. Just will have to see if your ergonomics match my ergonomics haha. I’ve had many items before that had thought put into them but just did work for my weird body. Maybe the CP wouldn’t be too bad. I need to really look at some pics again of them. It may just be that the little CP logo jewel is what I don’t like about it and with the full anno I want that has to come off anyway so I don’t have to replace it or can make my own logos to go there.

Ok the straight channel makes a lot more sense. I remember at first the z lock seemed like a great idea and seemed like it worked but idk if I just rounded the edges or something on my mag but after a while it felt like it was just an annoyance that only hung up on ways I didn’t want it to and wouldn’t hold the valve in at all.

I am sure your foregrip are comfy, but my bigger concern there is back to the fashion show aspect also I am weird and have always liked the tighter spacing on frame to foregrip… granted my body may tell me something different once I get back out and play (my friend and I were supposed to make our return last weekend but he was sick and once he finally aired up markers nothing worked since he put off buying a mag rebuild kit and the couple markers he had changed seals on ended up with other issues or dead batteries… so maybe next month).

I can see how those fittings could leak more easily. It’s a shame because they look so good.

and yeah I am sure there are things I don’t know about with setting up the pneumags. But I do at least have a good amount of cocker experience and I have at least put together an X valve mag with ULT and rebuilt it (granted I have yet to see if I rebuilt it right with air haha). I will have to decide which way I go there. If I am overly confident, try to do it my self, and end up having to send it back, I give you full permission to screen grab this and just write “I told you so” .

granted I do also need to settle on a body. I love how light and simple a good old ULE is but it’s also a little boring. I may wait and see if the XMT rerun comes to fruition (and maybe see if I can get a customized shorter one with only a single row of hexes so it’s not so long).

but yeah, case in point why I am starting to plan from now haha. Even today just back and forth here the thoughts I had are now even less sure of which options I want… if only I just won the lottery and could get my own CNC to play around until I found what hits my eye just right.


edit: friend had a karts body and some other rail that was super light weight for the time. Then again he now says it’s some other body like the karta but idk. At some point we will get a pick up here for people to identify…. Not that it really matters as it’s just a nice body haha.

[Chuck E Ducky]

rawbutter sells kits BTW

https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/paintball-news-aa/the-armory/air-gun-designs/9385-rawbutter-s-pneumag-gallery

[SR_matt]

That wont do you much good in respect to my MP90 because I completely ditched the Angel design (because I hated it) mine is only as tall as it needs to be, the Angel frame is way to big IMHO




Well that's just it, the CP ASA is anything BUT ergonomic, the worst kind of set in my opinion.



LOL, the two pneumags I have in house now belong to a AC expert too, he said the same exact thing, there's no real cross over between the two markers (he's by far NOT the first to say that) Truth it doesn't matter to me one way or another, but shipping does add up quick



I love a tight compact setup to, I always ran the largest drop forwards I could buy or make (before I got into machining) back in the day, problem was they didn't shoulder at all because the tank was so low, then add a Warp feed to the setup to makes things more cumbersome, even after fixing the factory Warp mounting system so it was more manageable you still had to completely support the marker with both hands because the tank would hit below the chest.

Yeah I hear you on the ergonomics but the CP matches my current set up that just really fits well for me. it puts the barrel bore axis just below my eye with the tank right in my shoulder pocket. I would be worried the wedge would want to put the tank butt higher or drop the marker lower than I like to sight (edit: not sure why the photo makes it look like the tank angles down, it’s totally horizontal)

Fair on the mags you’re working on. Maybe famous last words but I did inherit the mechanical abilities set from my late grandfather, took about 20 years for my dad to stop questioning me and realize I was like his dad who he could never keep up with. Hell if I could learn how to run and service as gas chromatograph mass spectrometer at work and have to correct actual chemists on doing it I would sure hope I could figure out some pneumatics… like I said famous last words. But I will say if I end up doing it my self and have to send it back to you I will take my punishment shot of Malört (and if you’re not familiar with Malört, well it doesn’t have a good reputation for taste haha). Maybe my brain hasn’t caught up to the potential issues but seems like it should be easy to determine if the issue is valve or pneumatics related, while the automag is one of the most beautiful machines invented, it’s not complicated (which honestly to me is one of the big factors that contributes to the beauty of the design). I figure worst case you throw in the biggest carrier that doesn’t leak with no shims, and then determine if it’s the on/off not playing well (which would just be pin length with the RT) or the pneumatics (which can only really be PSI setting with your drop in design), solve that issue then tune the level 10 back in. Again, famous last words and I totally may be missing some major factors there but, only so many root causes lol.

it is weird though. I used to run a 45/45 on this marker back in the day. It always felt great but when I picked it back up holy crap did the tank feel short. And it’s not like I built this as a teen and then grew, I didn’t grow any more after I built this mag as a 16 year old so not sure why the 68 fees so good on it now… maybe just my 34 year old back that I abused in my 20s can’t stand it anymore haha. Granted it sure helps that the new 68/45 weight the same as the 68/45 I used to have back in the day.

[SR_matt]

rawbutter sells kits BTW
https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/p...neumag-gallery

That may be an option for the ASA issue for sure. I know the set up is a pain for different ASAs (which I assume is the main reason Luke stopped doing the one offs) but that price is reasonable for it.

[FredMnkyDad10]

And if you can if you can find one. Luke's battery pack manifold and LPR foregrip.

[SR_matt]

And if you can if you can find one. Luke's battery pack manifold and LPR foregrip.

I had considered that as well. I saw an older sale post that had one (or maybe it was the foregeip that you swapped the reg internals into) that wasn’t marked as sold and reached out but never heard back.

granted I am sure the battery pack set up isn’t the lightest thing. And while even a mag with that wouldn’t be crazy heavy may any means, I am looking to keep the build super light. My ULE mag is about as light as you can get, even got a modern inteli frame that had the inside milled out since I was never going to need to cross member for the inteli hooper set up. Short of some rail milling and shopping the ULE front off there wasn’t much else to reduce weight.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Oh there’s things you can do to reduce weight ; )

[SR_matt]

I mean, I may have done my secondary concentration in metal smithing but I am far from clean with free handing a dremil haha. And as I live in a condo and have a neghibor that already thinks I run “heavy machines” when he hears the HVAC units vibrate through the building I don’t think I could pull off a mill in my living room… even if I technically have the space if I just sit in the corner to see the TV.