Running a Pre-2k Sniper on 12grams

[netsurferdude2]

I recently picked up a pre-2k sniper from Flounder and want to run it on 12 grams.
I'd prefer to run vertical 12grams into the ASA but can also run them through a reg. How should I set this up for the most shots per 12ie.

[Falcon16]

Without a reg you'd want to use the lightest hammer but heaviest valve spring that will get velocity, That way not too much gas is lost with the valve being open too long. Further You'd want a tight underbore on the barrel, lastly some sort of thing to prevent liquid getting into the valve.

I'd recommend getting a palmer's cart reg, getting that set up for your valve's sweet spot and then there you go.

[Flounder]

Just run them through the stabilizer that is already on the marker.

[phy]

Mine is completely stock and gets 30+ shots in 12g weather. I usually do a slight under bore with a freaked barrel and that's it. I wouldn't sweat trying to optimize too much. With a cci bucket in the vasa it's a lot easier to change 12ies than a pgp. I almost always dump at 30 shots anyway because math is hard.

[Memornix]

One of the enemies of shots per 12gram is extra volume that the co2 has to fill before its pressure can be put to use. I have actually made custom pump guides that are stepped down and longer on the inside and create less volume in the marker. They add another couple of shots since they minimize the wasted co2.

It has been forever since I have done this mod, but the point is, stay away from extra hoses or places where useless co2 volume can exist.

[Jordan]

Maybe I'm not thinking this through correctly, but the volume should not be affected by operating pressure - there's still a space that needs to fill, whether its being filled at 400psi or 800psi.

[Memornix]

At half the pressure, it takes half the gas to fill the same space so a regulator operating at lower pressure will use less gas. This is known as Boyles law.

Otherwise, my main point about lowering volume was mainly to eliminate gas loss on initial charging of the 12gram. This is why alot of phantoms and buzzards use the tiny diameter hardlines rather than larger diameter hoses.
Once the system is charged, the volume per shot is important.

Basically, to sum up, have the least wasted volume on initial charge and use the least amount of Co2 per shot and you get the most shots out of the 12gram.

[Jordan]

"Boyle's law, also referred to as the Boyle–Mariotte law, or Mariotte's law, is an experimental gas law that describes how the pressure of a gas tends to increase as the volume of the container decreases."

I see where my logic went wrong - thank you. Still not sure your explanation is quite there yet, either.

[russc]

I'm convinced that devolumizing forces the gun to shoot a vapor/liquid mix that expands in the barrel. It's some weird voodoo.

[fouge]

I've this idea long time ago. I had 95 sniper, very old valve, maddmann springs, 12" freak'd lapco barrel and venturi bolt. I had 20 shots with good velocity, with differents spring combo.

Also, we're ok to say we need the smallest volume for co2 expansion but what's the best hammer weight and style of bolt hole? Venturi, big or small transfert hole?

[DirrtyVans]

Was this project ever competed? I’ve been trying to figure out how to preform this same operation without using a reg. I’ve used a stiff valve spring and the lightest hammer spring I can own( which in themselves may be incorrect altogether) and I get a massive fluctuation in velocity. In the beginning it’ll be around 200 for 12 shots then climb, steady for a bit and shoot hot for most of the time after. It’s a pre 99 I believe( it has no serial numbers) and a 9/16th valve. Any help would be appreciated and if anyone has a lower set of internals that would do the trick I would love to purchase. Thanks for looking and sorry to hijack the thread. It’s hard to find this kind of info.

[fierymartel]

Was this project ever competed? I’ve been trying to figure out how to preform this same operation without using a reg. I’ve used a stiff valve spring and the lightest hammer spring I can own( which in themselves may be incorrect altogether) and I get a massive fluctuation in velocity. In the beginning it’ll be around 200 for 12 shots then climb, steady for a bit and shoot hot for most of the time after. It’s a pre 99 I believe( it has no serial numbers) and a 9/16th valve. Any help would be appreciated and if anyone has a lower set of internals that would do the trick I would love to purchase. Thanks for looking and sorry to hijack the thread. It’s hard to find this kind of info.

I have an old valve and some internals.

[Jordan]

I have an old valve and some internals.

Got a picture of the bottom of the valve? Looks like a Rat valve from here, I think they're better used with a reg.

[fierymartel]

The orifice is smaller than a stock valve. I believe it to be a Palmer's HP valve.

[Jordan]

The orifice is smaller than a stock valve. I believe it to be a Palmer's HP valve.

That's an original BBT Rat valve... I've got one in my parts box. PPS actually made the valve stems for BBT (which later became Shocktech from my understanding).

I'm not sure how well they do, unregged.

I don't know if you've seen an early valve but the orifice is tiny in them, much smaller than that Rat you have there.

Stock (based on Sheridan valve) early valve here:

https://www.baccipaintball.com/aut1849.html

Rat valve here:

https://www.baccipaintball.com/aut1848.html

[Chuck E Ducky]

I run a palmers HP valve in my Scout it works well. Needed a heavy hammer spring and light valve spring to counter unregulated pressure on the valve.

Stock Class CCM gets more shots then my unregulated Scout. I can get exactly 30 shots as long as it’s warm on the CCM (25) with the Scout but it needs more tuning and a stiffer hammer spring I think. I got the stiffest mad man Hammer spring in it and it’s not enough.

[fierymartel]

Ahhhh