Bought an Annihilation kit - need advice regarding choice of body and anno

[Olsson]

TLDR: Which body and anno will look best on a Cocker with an Annihilation kit?



Since I have less self-control than Philip J Fry, I apparently ordered an Annihilation kit from cfos00 before I gave myself time to come to my senses. After being prompted to go to Autococker Gawking Group on Facebook by, minimag03 (my wallet curses you, sir), the one minor hurdle along the way being the entry questions to getting entry to Autocockers. What do you mean favorite Autococker? Karta Emag? *cough*


Anyway, since I now have spent a ridiculous amount of money on a toy - well, half a toy - I figured I might as well get some advice from you lot, with all your collective experiences of buying ridiculously expensive toys, or parts of toys.


The main thing I am after is inspiration, basically. Advice and suggestions as to which body that would make this build as pleasing to the eye as possible, which HPR would complement that body the best, which barrel system would look gorgeous with the body, etc. Ideas along those lines, basically.

[Olsson]

Tied to what parts goes into the build comes the decision of anno. I am aware of the general idea that busy mills work out best with rather plain annos, and vice versa, so the choice of anno will probably be a later issue, even though the choice of anno might very well affect what kind of body I will go for. Feel free to come with advice both regarding what kind of anno, as well as what shop to go for.


At the moment I am partial towards an old school look, since in my mind an Annihilator is quite old school, being the heir to the BP Reflex Kit. A BBT Two Scoop would look absolutely gorgeous, although I find it unlikely that there are any of those bodies around, that isn't on a complete Two Scoop build, and I am not breaking apart a complete one. Velkor would for sure curse my build to be forever untimed if I pulled such a stunt.


Initially this thread will most probably be speculation, suggestions and hopefully you lot posting photos of other markers/bodies/annos. I will update the thread with details of the build as it comes along, but don't expect any major updates anytime soon. There will probably be photos of the actual build in various parts of the stage, if I can twist the arm of cfos00.

[Jordan]

Has to be 2k spec, too, I think? That rules out STOs and Evo Xs.

[minimag03]

I believe all EvoX are 2k except for the right feed version, I believe you're thinking of the regular Evo

[Jordan]

minimag03 - I only ever think RF when it comes to the EvoX. My favourite Cocker, period. Forgot they came in VF, actually.

[minimag03]

RT autococker page on cfos00's website:

https://www.hp-wt.com/rt-autocockers.html

There is another article on the site where he mentions RT autococker are inefficient, more specifically autocockers with 9/16 diameter valves. Most older autocockers use 9/16 valves, with a few exception like AKA Merlins. A lot of modern autococker use 11/16 valves (the same size as AKA Merlins). Research autococker bodies that use 11/16 valves and an efficient valve such as Inception Design's HF valve. Inception Designs made some, Mozak Machine makes new 11/16 bodies as well as others. This will greatly restrict the variety of autocockers to choose from, so consider what is more important to you: having the older RT autococker you want or having a notably more efficient RT cocker. There is a work-around tho, see below.


A BBT 2 Scoop Westwood? Like this these?



What if I told you that I know where you could get a brand new BBT 2 scoop Westwood (kinda)? With an 11/16 valve too. Check out Angry Antle Paintball. He's a very talented machinist. If you find an older autococker body you love with 9/16 valve, there is a chance Angry could modify it to accept 11/16 valves. Edit: superman below says these are actually hard to get from Angry, sorry I did not know, they're all over his Facebook along with 4 scoop Westwoods. I was totally trying to sell you on getting one cause i do think it would be simply awesome...hope its possible 🙁


For HPR I'd choose an AKA Sidewinder, not question CP regs are very popular and more aesthetically pleasing. I've heard about issues with Dye and Inception Design's HPR, best to stay away from them.


Edit: And I'm not gonna take the blame for you joining the group, I gave ya cfos00'a name, not the groups, you went down that rabbit hole yourself bud 😂

[shooter311]

Thanks, I was thinking a Jam bolt, but I couldn't find any pics of them for cockers. I'll check out the others.

[minimag03]

I think fullofpaint is correct at both guesses. If you continue scrolling down you'll see cfos00 using a a black version of the bolt. But the rear end of the bolt in the pics is wrong because Jam Bolts had ridges similar to a Lightning Bolt. At least my Jam Bolt did. I'm guessing cfos00 made the bolt in the pics.

[Olsson]

As cfos00 mentions further down the thread, he does indeed make those bolts.

[OpusX]

The correct answer is to get a V-Twin from DocsMachine

[Olsson]

minimag03 - I can see that you liked this comment, you know...

While this idea is just fantastic with so much craziness in the same Autococker, I would really like to have a cocker with"only" the craziness of an Annihilator kit.

At the moment buying two Annihilator kits and a relevant build for them is well and truly beyond my budget. Heck, even buying this one kit was most probably beyond my budget, so I did the mature thing and paid up before I could reflect upon it.

Also, a V-Twin is most definitely on my list of markers to get. I'll just have to scrounge up some more money for the paintball jar.

[shooter311]

If you really want something old school, I know there are several people doing conversions from 9/16th valves to 11/16th. I think the Lazurus valve has got many people converting. I have never dealt with him, but Angry paintball seems to be doing a lot of these conversions. So that is an option.

In my opinion if you want an old school look, but a modern body, check out a Meteor body kit. Check out the M1 they have that old school blockyness but also have a super clean look to them.
https://meteor-paintball.com/product...r-body-kit-v2/ They are also 11/16th valve.

This is personal preference, but a cocker shooting as fast as an RT cocker, looks best with a full back block clacking away! I would go full body for sure!

[Olsson]

Thank you very much for your input. Yes, I may very well go for a modern body with an old school look, since it is the look I am after, rather than the knowledge that the body is old.

Oh hell yes - in my mind an RT-cocker absolutely MUST have a back block clacking to any bystander's amazement and consternation. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[shooter311]

Also, I'm pretty sure all meteor stuff ships from France. Maybe the shipping would be cheaper?

[Olsson]

Shipping from France to Sweden would be cheaper, yes, and no customs within EU. However, the body will still need to go to the same anodizer, and that will for sure be in the U.S.

[superman]

I would do some digging and just look for bodies.
an original westwood will be expensive. Angry peckerwood may still be expensive as well as a slim chance of actually getting one.

If your looking for a recommendation on parts, i would say go with the sidewinder for sure. They seem to perform well. i have been using them on cockers/pumps since probably 03.

As far as the body, most things can be modified to 2k+ spec and 11/16 if that is the direction you want to go.

I am not exactly sure what all comes in his kit.

[minimag03]

Oh no! Did i give him false hope of getting one from Angry? I assumed he'd make one for the right price and the OP seemed to realize that a Westwood would be absurdly expensive.

[Olsson]

Yep, at the moment I am primarily digging, or actually rather checking out what could possibly be dug up. I am not dead set on a Westwood, although at this very moment a Two Scoop holds the first place in my mind about the aesthetics for the build. I will probably change my mind several times as I find other bodies pleasing to the eye, but I really appreciate all your input.

I have no exact budget for my build, but I do not have enough money to pay any kind of fantasy prices we have all seen on rare parts, when the seller is just waiting for that one single guy that has been chasing that particular part for years.

[BrendanB]

I would lean towards getting a body with 11/16 and use a delrin hammer and lazerous valve. The hammer movement “kick” may be necessary to make the annihilation function? but if not I would imagine the jerkiness of the shooting would be much more enjoyable.

[Olsson]

Jerkiness when shooting will most certainly contribute to the overall enjoyment of shooting this build - or so I would imagine. On those same lines, I will absolutely go for a full block, to have a back block clattering away merrily.

[minimag03]

I think cfos00 might need to comment on the Lazarus going into one of these. I haven't heard much about efficiency with the Lazarus but the little bit I have was not encouraging.

[Olsson]

Thank you for mentioning it. I will have a conversation with cfos00 about every single part going into the build, just to make sure that they are 100% compatible.

[BrendanB]

The trigger spring actuation pressure with a Lazarus and a Delrin hammer is waaaaaaaay less than any other spring hammer valve combos.
Definitely less vibration from hammer weight movement and valve slamming. True efficiency may suffer. Not sure how many of you guys are trying to shoot 6 pods a game so for me it's a moot point.

[shooter311]

If you are shooting an Annihilation kit, good luck shooting less than 6 pods a game, lol.

[Jordan]

I think cfos00 might need to comment on the Lazarus going into one of these. I haven't heard much about efficiency with the Lazarus but the little bit I have was not encouraging.

Murph reports his Lazarus'd Trilogy achieved half a case off a 68/4500 with 1500 left in the tank.

Sounds pretty decent to me? More paint than I shoot a day, anyways.

[minimag03]

That's firmly in the decent category to me haha... so it's about as efficient as an average 9/16th autococker, plenty of people running their Annihilation kit on one of those... i vote the OP should get both valves

[superman]

How many cases before the delrin threads go for the cocking rod.


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[BrendanB]

prob more than you think as the pressure on the cocking rod is hardly anything

[superman]

I’m actually less concerned about the pressure than screwing and unscrewing the cocking rod.

[minimag03]

On December 5th BMC Fabrication posted prototype composite hammers that were going out to be tested. They don't have a stainless insert but they are prototypes, and the material could be stronger than POM. There are people still working on it and eventually they'll get it right.

[Psycho91]

I would think they would have an internal sleeve for the threads and maybe add just a tad bit of weight back to hammer, I mean it can be to light I'm sure

[cfos00]

Hey, in terms of 9/16th, I can do a lower tube for you if you want. That means I do one of my valves and hammers. It won't quite be a 11/16ths ID valve for efficiency, but it will kick the crap out of anything else at 9/16ths. Literally a little under a pod difference between it and a 11/16ths ID, and 2+ pods over any other 9/16ths set up I've found...and I've tried most.


I have no idea on the laz valve and delrin hammer, but I am VERY curious. I would think you could also helicoil or put an insert into the hammer if stripping is a concern...and it might be. My kits will test the physical capabilities of every single part in a cocker (my purple and gray twister has around 500k shots through it, and I've burned through 3 sears and 2 rams).

In terms of the bolts, I make these and they work extremely well. They've gone through several revisions through the years, but the current design is pretty bulletproof. The front end is basically an extended aka bolt with a ramp and front o-ring (think cure, but bigger ramp), large air inlet,, and the back end a differently designed jam, with a much heavier spring that actually works very well and doesn't get the bounce back that the jams can. They still will jam, but they're much, much more firm. Also, if you don't have a halo or rotor, get one. You're going to need it.

And the kit is going to replace about half of the components of the entire gun. It's a lot, including the bolt, bolt pin, front block, pump rod, cocking rod, an on/off, slotted rod, cocking knob, ram, fittings, and frame. It might not look like much because I try to keep it looking line they just came off the line, but it really is a lot.

[Olsson]

Thank you very much for that extensive clarification cfos00. Well, since I at the moment is mulling over the choice of body from a primarily aesthetic perspective, I can't at this point say whether it will be 9/16th or 11/16th. Especially now, since you pointed out the low difference in efficiency between the two.

I very much appreciate the "just off the line" look. It is exactly what I want, so I'm glad that is the route you have been going with your kits. The look of your builds so far is just mind blowing. They look downright perfect every last one of them.

So I do feel the pressure of putting together a build that won't look like it was build by someone with the aesthetics of Hermann Göring...