FASOR-mech-pump, all at once?

[DavidBoren]

Feel free to tell me I am stupid for re-inventing the wheel, whilst overcomplicating it at the same time...

So... use one of those pneumatic pump kits to operate the bolt, and a 3way behind the trigger to operate a FASOR ram that opens the valve... like an Osiris/Sandridge Firestorm with a pneumatic pump kit. You would have closed bolt operation with that fabulously light and tiny pump stroke of the pneumatic assist pump kit, and a hammerless FASOR ram firing the valve.

We have mechanical ways to control dwell, so you should end up with relatively precise control of the valve. I guess nothing really stops you from using a 5way in the grip to control a balanced ram without a spring.

To further add to the intrigue and mystery of superfluous overcomplications in this battery-less pump-action space-gun, we could combine all this nonsense with one of the balance valves available.

Even if it doesn't make sense, could this actually work?

[tyronejk]

We have mechanical ways to control dwell, so you should end up with relatively precise control of the valve. I guess nothing really stops you from using a 5way in the grip to control a balanced ram without a spring.

I tried doing some semi-similar building a mech Ion with a dump chamber shutoff connected to the same 3-way that controls the air sear and found the limiting factor to just be packaging. Using off the shelf Clippard valves, there's just too much stuff to cram into a grip frame. You could do something fancy like an all-in-one unit with built-in 3-way, check valves, QEVs, etc, but that does get pretty complicated.

In theory, I don't see why that wouldn't work though.

[SignOfZeta]

I’m not following exactly because I don’t know some of those terms you’re using but it sounds like a pump gun that’s way more complicated than any semi. I can’t imagine why someone wouldn’t want to spend tons of money and time on something like that so I say start ordering parts now. You can hopefully not lose too much money developing some kind of kit that eight of us can buy and never get around to fully finishing and the whole MCB hamster wheel cycle will be complete.

[DavidBoren]

I’m not following exactly because I don’t know some of those terms you’re using but it sounds like a pump gun that’s way more complicated than any semi.

Okay, well, it IS just "a pump gun that's way more complicated than an any semi"...

There were some fancy [extra complicated] autocockers made back in the day that had two 3ways, and a FASOR ram in place of the hammer... actually, one of them might have used a 3way and a solenoid, but it doesn't matter. Anyways, one of the 3way's operated exactly like a normal autococker... except there is no hammer being cocked with the bolt. The hammer is replaced with a spring-return air ram, controlled by a separate 3way (or solenoid).

We would be remaking an Osiris autococker... then be replacing the 3way that operates the bolt with a pneumatic assist pump kit.

The pump handle would operate the bolt, as you would expect from a pump handle. But the 3way connected to the trigger would be controlling an air-powered piston that opens the valve instead of a hammer and spring. This ram only requires a 3way to operate because it is spring-return... so pulling the trigger supplies air to push the ram forwars and opens the valve [firing the marker]... and releasing the trigger vents the air behind the ram, allowing the spring to return the ram to the rearward position.

You are absolutely correct... it is "a pump gun that's way more complicated than an any semi".

But it is a pump gun with a 1/4" pump stroke, that takes ounces to operate... instead of a 3/4" pump stroke that has to overcome however many pounds the hammer spring is.

And, you could control the dwell of the ram with a flow control valve... so you have control over exactly how long the valve is open, rather than relying on a hammer bouncing off the valve stem. You should be able to tune the opening of the valve by milliseconds with the simple twist of a little screw. The shot to shot consistency should be awesome. And you should see great efficiency because you aren't wasting air holding the valve open any longer than needed to reach velocity.

Plus, the entire marker could operate at ~150psi if you are using a balance valve... it's like running the entire marker off an lpr. Lol.

It would still be something that is just crazy, neat to be using... like those mag-fed autocockers (all six of them, or whatever)... it would relatively unique, and I guarantee whomever owned it would be proud of it in the weird way a child is proud of the pegs on his bmx. It would be this strange, steampunk contraption with hoses and valves that someone put effort and time into... it would be objectively better than any pump gun without a pneumatic assisted pump kit... and you would have petty bragging rights in juxtapose to any autococker with "just" a single 3way. Lol.

"These go to 11."
- Spinal Tap (circa 1984)

"My shit is custom."
- Resident Evil: Apocalypse (circa 2004)

[Señor Leo]

So if I'm understanding this right you'd probably just need;

TJD pump kit
Trilogy Select Fire frame converted to a Pnuecocker frame
Odyssey 03x rammer

[DavidBoren]

So if I'm understanding this right you'd probably just need;

TJD pump kit
Trilogy Select Fire frame converted to a Pnuecocker frame
Odyssey 03x rammer

Yeah, pretty much exactly what I am talking about... I would throw in a laz valve, just for fun... but yeah, you're picking up what I am laying down. I was even imagining this thing being based on a Trilogy SF pneucocker.

[Grendel]

Do it, it is possible to build and we love (except Zeta) Rube Goldberg markers. The Osiris is my favorite Electronic Cocker by far and to take that and return it to being a pump has just the right amount of Irony for me

[Señor Leo]

Yeah, pretty much exactly what I am talking about... I would throw in a laz valve, just for fun... but yeah, you're picking up what I am laying down. I was even imagining this thing being based on a Trilogy SF pneucocker.

If that was the case, have you seen the "pnue-pump" trilogy conversions? You Wouldn't even need a TJD kit

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/various/trilogy-pneumatic-assist-pump

[DavidBoren]

There it is... like it was meant to be.

Honestly, if the pump kit has a self-contained 4way of its own... then you could re-use the autococker's normal 4way to run a balanced ram controlled by air pressure both forward and backwacks. You would lose out on the opportunity to control dwell with a flow control valve on the pilot, but I don't think you would need much, if anything, as far as special valves mounted in the grip.

The trigger is already connected to the 4way in factory form on an autococker, and the 4way doesn't care where to hoses are routed... like to a ram inside the lower tube.

[Chaos]

That's grendal50 's pump kit....It's unbelievably short and smooth,I got to shoot the prototype and was super impressed