KP3 compared to Sniper/cocker

[scuzzy]

Good morning. I have lurked MCB for years but never had an account. I was always more electro-play and more active at PBN. I am getting up in years, and am considering returning to play for fitness reasons, and likely to pump, as I really enjoyed playing with my SC phantom before I quit after the kids started arriving.

I am looking at a couple used KP3's, and they look very nice for the price. But I am also looking at some converted cockers with CCM or slick pump kits. I have never shot a sniper, only the Empire version. it was ok, but i think I preferred my decked out phantom.

how will a kp3 feel compared to a converted cocker? will most cockers feel similar if the components are quality?

any and all information/experience you can pass on will be greatly appreciated.

[RAZRBAKK]

I'm of the opinion that none of the more recent mass produced pumps(Empire Sniper, Azodin KPs, etc) have bested the tried and true WGP Snipers.

For slightly more, and sometimes slightly less than a KP3, you will have a substantially better platform with far more aftermarket parts in the Sniper.

[RAZRBAKK]

To expand a little further, with a Sniper build you can buy one ready to rock with a basic hinge frame and single rod pump kit, and you can upgrade each component individually to suit your preferences.

[scuzzy]

I'm of the opinion that none of the more recent mass produced pumps(Empire Sniper, Azodin KPs, etc) have bested the tried and true WGP Snipers.

For slightly more, and sometimes slightly less than a KP3, you will have a substantially better platform with far more aftermarket parts in the Sniper.

What readily available pump kit would you recommend for a sniper conversion? I checked CCM and they don't appear to be in stock. I'm seeing lots of affordable mech cockers, but ones that are already converted are very expensive.

[pdogg77]

What readily available pump kit would you recommend for a sniper conversion? I checked CCM and they don't appear to be in stock. I'm seeing lots of affordable mech cockers, but ones that are already converted are very expensive.

I love my Slice kit on my pump. I bought a broken up cocker on ebay for cheap, put this on it, new orings, inception bolt, and a new reg and it is a great shooter.

https://autocockerparts.com/pump-kits-parts/slice-pump-kits/

[Chuck E Ducky]

So apparently the KP3 have some issues with reg seats if you adjust them under pressure. Kind of annoying. But they shoot great. If I got one I would replace the reg with something more reliable. Only issue I see with them.

Honestly if you liked the Phantom I say just get another one. They are still being made tho they are a lil more expensive then they use to be but what isn’t these days.

CCM is still top dog when it comes to the sniper platform. They are butter smooth with top notch quality components. But you will pay premium for one as they really don’t produce many anymore due to material costs. At this point You could build a really nice sniper from scratch out of your favorite body, For substantially less, fairly easy.

If you put CCM components on anything it will shoot like a CCM. 90% of that feel is in the spring ls with any good pump kit.

KP3 feel great to shoot it’s not a bad entry level pump. They do have there issues mainly there regs. Empire snipers have a handle and lug timing issue. Easy to fix a mod.

But given that you like the Phantom I would go with a nice VSC with an open class feedneck.

Build a sniper with CCM or Autocockerparts.com components build or shoot the wad on a nice CCM depending on your budget. Would be a good way to go as well.

If I had to only have one pump it would be my VSC Phantom for sure.

[scuzzy]

So apparently the KP3 have some issues with reg seats if you adjust them under pressure. Kind of annoying. But they shoot great. If I got one I would replace the reg with something more reliable. Only issue I see with them.

Honestly if you liked the Phantom I say just get another one. They are still being made tho they are a lil more expensive then they use to be but what isn’t these days.

CCM is still top dog when it comes to the sniper platform. They are butter smooth with top notch quality components. But you will pay premium for one as they really don’t produce many anymore due to material costs. At this point You could build a really nice sniper from scratch out of your favorite body, For substantially less, fairly easy.

If you put CCM components on anything it will shoot like a CCM. 90% of that feel is in the spring ls with any good pump kit.

KP3 feel great to shoot it’s not a bad entry level pump. They do have there issues mainly there regs. Empire snipers have a handle and lug timing issue. Easy to fix a mod.

But given that you like the Phantom I would go with a nice VSC with an open class feedneck.

Build a sniper with CCM or Autocockerparts.com components build or shoot the wad on a nice CCM depending on your budget. Would be a good way to go as well.

If I had to only have one pump it would be my Phantom for sure.

good advice. i have priced out the phantoms, and I like them a lot, but for the price they are, I think I would like to try my hand at a sniper/cocker. I had an old gx-3 slider autococker long ago, and I really enjoyed the way it felt to shoot, which leads me to think a sniper will be my favorite platform.

plus...nostalgia.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I would build one then. Get a Slice Plat or gold pump kit, with their lower tube Kit. Maybe grab a spring kit if you feel like tuning it. Any good reg and a quality barrel kit will have that thing shooting really well. Lots of great body options find one that fits your flavor. Mozak is making som real nice stuff. If you’re looking for custom body they are and real nice frames reasonably priced.

[Chuck E Ducky]

ODM makes CCM style handles that fit the Slice plat and gold kits to if you prefer that style CCM handle with custom colors too. You can basically build one from a slice kit if you can’t find a reasonable priced CCM kit.

[RAZRBAKK]

Another vote for the slice kit. I currently have a CCM economy and the slice silver is miles above it.

Also pick up some of the Freedummy detents to prevent rollouts. I don't mess with barrel kits on my Sniper.

[Jonnydread]

WGP-based cocker pumps all day. They feel more substantial and have fewer issues. Freedummy detents are a great option if you don't feel like screwing around with bore sizing.

[superman]

The inception kits are pretty solid too. They feel more like a ccm kit when broken in. I personally feel like the slice kit feels cheap.

[Chuck E Ducky]

The gold and plat kits are a lot better. The base kits feel cheap I agree. Inception kits feel great I just hate the handle options. CCM EZ grip is my jam even put one on my Phantom.

[superman]

I have the ez on my ccms as well. I did not like the slice platinum kit with the bearings. It felt clunky to me.

[Jonnydread]

The plastic on the Slice feels more chintzy to me than CCM, etc., but the kit itself feels solid.

[iamthelazerviking]

KP will feel cheaper since they're made in China and also have metric screws if that matters. For the price they can be good shooters. Just depends on how refined your tastes are/how much you're willing to spend. Prices are pretty wonky currently for the nicer things.

[Jonnydread]

Also if you want to see what's available post up a WTB (want to buy) thread. You should be able to find a used sniper setup with good parts for $300 or less.

[Hellion360]

The less expensive Genesis Inception pump kit is really good for the price. I have one on my stock class sniper and it is great, better than the CCM economy was for sure. Obviously I have the drift kits as well, but I wanted to try the Genesis out myself. It stacks up very well and I have never felt the desire to swap it at all.

[iamthelazerviking]

I always liked the Genesis. Pump handle a little small for me but they're great for the price

[SignOfZeta]

Something I think needs to be understood first and that is, do you want auto trigger?

Many of those KP3s don’t have AT and adding auto trigger to a gun that doesn’t already have it is like trying to whittle yourself a spark plug. I wouldn’t suggest you try it so…if no AT is fine get the KP if you need it then get a KP with AT or a well put together cocker pump (ie probably $800).

The CCM pump kit is amazing but a gun with no AT is a gun with no AT regardless of how smoothly it pumps.

Phantoms and Sterlings have AT by default that never needs adjusting and doesn’t even include actual parts. They are also way cheaper guns than comparable quality cockerpumps from CCM.

IMO a good modern Sterling is the best thing going at any price. Light as a feather, light pump stroke, super easy to strip and clean, great AT.

[scuzzy]

Something I think needs to be understood first and that is, do you want auto trigger?

Many of those KP3s don’t have AT and adding auto trigger to a gun that doesn’t already have it is like trying to whittle yourself a spark plug. I wouldn’t suggest you try it so…if no AT is fine get the KP if you need it then get a KP with AT or a well put together cocker pump (ie probably $800).

The CCM pump kit is amazing but a gun with no AT is a gun with no AT regardless of how smoothly it pumps.

Phantoms and Sterlings have AT by default that never needs adjusting and doesn’t even include actual parts. They are also way cheaper guns than comparable quality cockerpumps from CCM.

IMO a good modern Sterling is the best thing going at any price. Light as a feather, light pump stroke, super easy to strip and clean, great AT.

I had auto trigger on two and might have used it once on each. I didn't find it useful at all for my style of play. If I got charged, we both got eliminated whether I fired once or went AT. I never tried covering lanes with my pumps either, as i just couldn't fire accurately in AT