Freak boring VS detent VS both

[Greentorpeedo]

So some of my phantoms are detented some are freak bored some are both. I can't tell too much difference between them.

Does someone have a super passionate argument for one over the other?

I have one with neither and need to decide detent, freak, or both?

[Hellion360]

If you play with 12grams, bore matching gets you a noticeable increase in efficiency.

[JeepDVLZ45]

When I have the opportunity, I run both. I don't have any real proof that its better this way.

My reasoning?

The detent prevents rollouts/double feeds
The freak insert gets me better efficiency (I slightly overbore)

Again, no proof it does anything, but in my head it SHOULD help (and others smarter than I have said it does)

[Hellion360]

This is the ideal, and actually mine is done this way too. Twins!

[Toestr]

Are we talking ASP detents or the original CCI rings? I've wondered about this myself. How far does the ball sit into the barrel when chambered? I'd imagine you'd want the maximum diameter of the ball to be in the barrel for optimum efficiency, but how would that work with the ASP detents?

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[shooter311]

I agree with Jeep. I thought a freaked barrel would be all I needed, but when I played stock class I found pointing the marker towards the ground to feed while pumping caused double feeds. I ended up getting the detent mod. I could get away with just the detent mod, but if I had to do it all over again I would still do both.

[Grendel]

If you can, especially with stock or modified stock use both. Slightly under-bore with a detent system other then detent rings (really do not like detent rings for many reasons). I like the idea of ASP detents but have not used them. I drill my bodies to take Spyder detents from below between the body and trigger frame. Capital Dave does similar but under the stock feed just in front of the mounting screw.

[Cunha]

I’d rather have one with asp detents and a stock barrel than one with a freak barrel and no detents.

I run em fine with no detents but detents is better. You can’t always pump perfectly. Even if it’s one bad pump out of 300 it’s worth it to have the detents.

[Chuck E Ducky]

ASP Detents eliminate rollouts and double feeds. Freak bumps efficiency and helps with rollouts.

Down side to a freak insert is it will never shoot clean if you happen to break a ball. Barrel and insert will need to be removed and cleaned as paint will get trapped between the barrel and insert and constantly weep paint. Kills accuracy until it’s cleaned properly. With a fixed bore you can just straight shot it and go.

With properly fitting ASP detents the body will hold a paintball regardless of what barrel you put in front of it. If I had to choose between the two I would definitely spring for the ASP mod.

I run both and over bore really brittle paint if I have to and just let the ASP detents do their job. But with good paint on a nice warm day I will tighten up the bore for a lil more efficiency out of a 12g.

Also something to consider newer fixed bore phantom barrels are smaller bore overall. Then the older ones so with the newer barrels there is less of a difference seen in efficiency. So older barrels benefit more from freak inserts.

[Nish]

I had ASP detents on a Phantom and on a Ditto Deuce. I'll argue that once the gun is cocked any detent in the body will do nothing.

Detents help prevent problems when cocking the gun. Barrel matching through freak boring or another kit will help with roll outs and efficiency.

A good way to visualize this is to find paint that doesn't roll out of your barrel, load it into the gun, after loading a ball by cocking the gun take the barrel off and see where the ball is.

[Greentorpeedo]

The ball doesn't sit in the barrel when it's waiting to be fired it's still in the body. ASP actually has two detent positions. One right below the feed so it doesn't double feed, and one in the cocked position when the ball is moved forward in the body waiting to be fired.

[Nish]

Sounds like you know what you need then Good luck

[Chuck E Ducky]

Correct on the phantom the ball chambered sits just before the barrel that’s why using the old style detent rings make them harder on paint. They work but it’s a very sharp edge the ball passes threw under pressure. Also why a tight bore won’t stop double feeds if you pump slow there is room for two before a freak insert come into play to stop it. Easily fixed by pumping faster but the ASP detents eliminate all of that it’s hands down my favorite phantom mod.

[Greentorpeedo]

Seems to me that if you had to choose one ASP detent is the way to go. Freak can be used to detent but it doesn't always work due to brittle paint it's mostly for CO2 efficiency. Ideally you would get both however.

Thanks for input guys.

[SignOfZeta]

Freaking is a PITA so I don’t use the stuff. I will eventually freak my JT ERS but that’s about it.

Freedummy wedgits are in all my guns and work perfectly to stop rollouts. They cost $2 each or whatever and haven’t let me down in two/three seasons. Both in performance and bang for buck this is the for fix me. Total victory.

If you are double feeding you are pumping too slow or stopping in the middle or something else silly. It’s never going to be a problem otherwise. Therefore I wouldn’t spend a cent on stopping double feeds. Fix your technique.

The ASP style body makes a lot of sense but when I bought one from Extreme Velocity it had the wrong o-rings, no spares, and therefore basically didn’t work. Everything just rolled right on out like I didn’t just spend $60 on it. I put bigger o-rings in it and it works better but I haven’t spent a lot of time with it yet. I’d like to vote for ASP-style as the one true fix but sadly I had problems so I’m not sold yet. Maybe get yours from ASP instead of EV?

IMO: Once perfected, I like a gun I never have to mess with at all. If I have to take it apart twice in the same season I try to do better. If you’re the kind of guy who can’t leave his gun alone for a week without adding parts or sawing something off if it then mine is not the kind of advise you can use.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, you unscrew your barrel and put in an insert…which you have chosen from a selection of inserts you carry around…and after you’ve measured your paint.

I rarely even take my barrel off with wedgits. It’s also never been mailed away to be freaked, which is another step.

You aren’t taking me seriously when I say I like a low maintenance gun.

[Brokeass_baller]

I don't currently own a Phantom, and I haven't since .688 was a common ball size.

But I've kept my Kingman Hammer around because it's Spyder threaded, and I just love the damn thing. I take 5 paintballs and blow them through the barrel. Whatever the common insert is, I drop it by one so it's a slight underbore. I don't think I've ever had a problem with rollouts or double feeding. Plus it requires no more "maintenance" than it takes to chrono the marker.

[Brokeass_baller]

I will say that I hate anti-double feeds though, and I love that my Hammer doesn't have that (I remember my SL68-II had it). I love being able to load in two rounds and bunker somebody. Sure, the first shot "bloops" out, but at close range, the lower velocity is meaningless, and it acts as an insurance policy in case my aim is a bit off.

[Cunha]

That’s anti double pump

[Brokeass_baller]

Yeah that.

I need ten characters to post this.

[frd333do33]

ASP detent mod all the way. I tried all the other methods and nothing comes close to the ASP detent mod. I go ASP detent mod and stock barrel.

[SuperAtomic]

My ASP detent mod doesn't seem to do anything for rollouts. I've tried all the o-rings and the little plastic U's that came with the kit and the paint just rolls right past. Maybe I need to find some bigger o-rings, or maybe it was just an unsuccessful mod and the slits weren't carved deep enough.

I always use an underbored freak barrel as insurance since I can't trust the ASP mod.

[JeepDVLZ45]

Thats crazy (and it sucks), its a great mod, but I suppose it can't be perfect every time. I've done all of the bodies I play(ed) with regularly (6 so far) and only had an issue 1x ever.

Maybe try "pinching" your O-rings when you install them. You can really cram them in there and get them to protrude inside the breech a bit more that way.

What size insert do you typically use? I had that issue with one bag of paint one winter, but I was also running a 0.677 back and still getting rollouts.

[frd333do33]

HaveBlue can also add another set of detents to the top of the body and the stick feed pinches it in place. So you have two sets of detents to hold the balls in place. I considered doing this until I started using Valken Graffiti.

[Cunha]

You may need to mod your mod.