Do Crosman 12g's just suck, or...

[iamthelazerviking]

Edit: just weighed all the remaining 12 g's I have. Probably have around 40 left. Nearly all are 41 grams. 4 are 40g and 4 are 42g. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠༼⁠ᴼ⁠ل͜⁠ᴼ⁠༽⁠_⁠/⁠¯

$17 for 40 at Walmart is a good deal, unless these are just trash. Maybe the quality has gone down hill but I remember years ago not having much of an issue. Been meaning to weigh the remaining ones I have left to see if some are underfilled.

Last time I played stock class was with a new Phantom, efficiency was less than desirable. Either there's some break in that needs to happen or I'm using crap 12 grams.

[BigRed]

It's a good price but yes...they do also suck! I've had Crossman 12 grams give me 15 rounds out of a Phantom before. Just too inconsistent!

[iamthelazerviking]

It's a good price but yes...they do also suck! I've had Crossman 12 grams give me 15 rounds out of a Phantom before. Just too inconsistent!

I was impatient and decided to go this route vs ordering online/paying more/waiting, but lesson learned.

[Loophole]

Weigh them and use the heaviest of the bunch for when you play. Use the rest if testing/dialing in your marker! But yeah... they are not the greatest.

[Have Blue]

Same with Estes rocket motors - weigh them all and use the heaviest ones for competition. (at least, that was the going wisdom in the mid-late 90s - some people did exhaustive studies measuring lengths, nozzle eccentricities, etc., while the far simpler studies (just weigh it) came to the same conclusion: more mass = more oomph)

[iamthelazerviking]

I'll need to order some Lelands from a place I see still has them for a decent price

[iamthelazerviking]

Took a minute to weigh what I have left. Almost all are 41 grams, 4x are 40 and 4x are 42

[Have Blue]

I'd suggest using a more precise scale - something that only resolves to 1g of resolution is a bit hard to rely on when you are trying to determine how close to 12.00 grams of CO2 are contained in a tiny pressure vessel. For years Crosman twelvies have been known to be the Kia of the powerlet world while Leland has been the Rolls-Royce. But just _how_ much they differ is the true question.

[redsquirrel]

I played today and lent a phantom and some of the same crosman 12grams to a buddy. He claimed that one only got 8 shots, and while I found it hard to believe at the time, now I don’t doubt it.

[iamthelazerviking]

Whoa. Yeah it kind of felt like that at times though haha. I don't want them to go to waste, but I also like efficiency...

[Mr. Hick]

I occasionally run crossman powerlets, and often times I don't notice any difference. However, I will say that the last batch I purchased (spring this year) was using some sort of cheaper chineseium for the caps which caused quite a few of them to puncture very poorly, and probably leak during game play that I didn't notice. I had one puncture and then deform causing the 12 to vent completely in the bucket changer.

Our core group of guys plays heavily enough to warrant purchasing 450 from red-rock USA and breaking it up. The batch I got from there 2 weeks ago was all Lelands.

[JeeperCreeper]

A better test would be to weigh them full, use them, then weigh the empties to see if you are in fact getting 12 grams of co2.

[Fossilhead]

I cut one open just for kicks. They are DIRTY in the inside.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Crossman have oil in them. They work fine but you will get more duds they are not as consistent in size so some lever changers can have issues. (especially the non adjustable type)

With all that they are cheeper when purchasing in small quantities. They work fine, you just need to clean your marker more often because you are adding a surprising amount of oil after a days play.

I purchase Leland’s or Liss (food grade) no oil. I like to lightly oil my internals with a real thin synthetic oil and I can get some really good efficiency numbers out of my marker. Liss, Leland’s ,Special Force when purchased in bulk are very similar in price. I buy them 450+ at a time and in the end they might be a few cents +\- depending on current bulk prices from Red Rock Minnesota they have the best bulk price especially when you buy enough to get the free shipping. So far I’m on my 4th, 450 box (I gave /sold some off) but I haven’t gotten a single dud yet.

So long story short in a pinch Crossman work fine. If you don’t play a lot Crossman are fine.

However If you play enough to warrant a bulk purchase or just want a cleaner better performance 12g, invest in one of the food grade 12g they are definitely a noticeably better performing option.

[JeepDVLZ45]

Crossman have oil in them. They work fine but you will get more duds they are not as consistent in size so some lever changers can have issues. (especially the non adjustable type)

With all that they are cheeper when purchasing in small quantities. They work fine, you just need to clean your marker more often because you are adding a surprising amount of oil after a days play.

I purchase Leland’s or Liss (food grade) no oil. I like to lightly oil my internals with a real thin synthetic oil and I can get some really good efficiency numbers out of my marker. Liss, Leland’s ,Special Force when purchased in bulk are very similar in price. I buy them 450+ at a time and in the end they might be a few cents +\- depending on current bulk prices from Red Rock Minnesota they have the best bulk price especially when you buy enough to get the free shipping. So far I’m on my 4th, 450 box (I gave /sold some off) but I haven’t gotten a single dud yet.

So long story short in a pinch Crossman work fine. If you don’t play a lot Crossman are fine.

However If you play enough to warrant a bulk purchase or just want a cleaner better performance 12g, invest in one of the food grade 12g they are definitely a noticeably better performing option.

Spot on, here.

only 1 small thing to add. The last round of Liss are a RCH shorter than other 12ies (or at least mine are) and I had to run a small shim in my ICD. (Just a piece of hook/loop double sided tape in the bucket of the lever.). But consistency on all other levels is well worth that “sacrifice”

[JeeperCreeper]

I noticed some Liss 12 grams I have are slightly out of round, and I have to be selective of what I'm pushing through my PPS quick changer, some hang up in the sleeve, especially when coated in frost. The Liss 8 grams are perfect, but those are very uncommon to use

[Chuck E Ducky]

My latest purchase from red rock was Leland. But the box before that was Liss and didn’t have any issues with my ICD. But I purchased that a year and a half ago so I’m sure it’s a different batch. Currently I believe they are shipping Specal Force they are just rebrand Leland’s. They got the nice Cap they feed really nice in the ICD. I definitely prefer the Specal Force/ Leland’s over the Liss tho. But the Liss I got performed great for me as well.

[iamthelazerviking]

Great info. I'll stash the Crosman away and have a 40 count of Lelands from New England Airguns on the way.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I definitely prefer Lelands but Crossman will do the job in a pinch. I do think Daisy are a lil more reliable over the Crossman. But they still got the oil I definitely prefer the oil free ones. Just keeps everything working nice longer.

[Psycho91]

I hated Crossmans they never want to act right for me and a quarter of them end up getting wasted, I started using daisy powerlines I believe is what they re called and haven't had near as may issues if any at all, and I get them at Walmart of course it's been years since iv played stock class but thats what I was playing mainly before I took my break