Set screws for Phantom Breech

[Taylor D]

Trying to figure out what size insert nut is used on the phantom breech. I know it's 8-32 for the screws to fit, but I want to source some of them to use with a 3D printed breech.

[flyweightnate]

Airsoldier.com occasionally has them. They're made by CCI; it's a solid stainless 1/4-36 x 8-32 (10-32 in the valve) insert, if memory serves correctly.

[Have Blue]

Airsoldier.com occasionally has them. They're made by CCI; it's a solid stainless 1/4-36 x 8-32 (10-32 in the valve) insert, if memory serves correctly.

Yep, product page is here: https://airsoldier.com/product/cci-s...hread-inserts/
I think I have more of the 10-32 inserts left, even though the site shows them as out of stock.

But if printing a breech, I'd be inclined to just tap (or print the threads directly if you have the resolution) instead of trying to use an insert.

[Chuck E Ducky]

You have the valve body ones too? Like a full set of them? I been scared to remove mine for Ano for fear of not being able to replace them.

[flyweightnate]

EV is selling them now, too - albeit at $7 each, and without the cool toolbox sticker you get from Airsoldier

[Taylor D]

Yep, product page is here: https://airsoldier.com/product/cci-s...hread-inserts/
I think I have more of the 10-32 inserts left, even though the site shows them as out of stock.

But if printing a breech, I'd be inclined to just tap (or print the threads directly if you have the resolution) instead of trying to use an insert.

Do you think a breech would hold on just fine with the thumb screw and the feedblock screwed right into the plastic?

I guess it doesn't make much difference if the screw is right into plastic vs the set screw right into the plastic.

Guess I'll give it a shot.

[flyweightnate]

You could also get heat-stake inserts designed for plastic if you'll be doing a lot of assembly and disassembly. Penn Engineering makes some that I'd bet McMaster carries.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/inserts-for-plastics/thread-size~8-32/

The expanding inserts are easy to install but you'll need a plastic with really good cohesion so it doesn't split. The other types will create less stress but need to be heated. Not sure if any are a low enough profile, though.

[SignOfZeta]

Yep, product page is here: https://airsoldier.com/product/cci-s...hread-inserts/
I think I have more of the 10-32 inserts left, even though the site shows them as out of stock.

But if printing a breech, I'd be inclined to just tap (or print the threads directly if you have the resolution) instead of trying to use an insert.

That is not good advice. There simply isn’t enough material there for pure plastic. Even the real (metal) bodies have metal inserts. If you’re going to never use the gun or make breaches all the time I guess it’s fine.

[SignOfZeta]

Do you think a breech would hold on just fine with the thumb screw and the feedblock screwed right into the plastic?

I guess it doesn't make much difference if the screw is right into plastic vs the set screw right into the plastic.

Guess I'll give it a shot.

…it makes a very big difference. The plastic won’t be taking the force needed to stretch the screw, the insert does. Also the threads on the insert are very much larger than the screw threads.

[cryogenic76]

If you are printing the breech, might you consider printing the trigger frame assembly and breech as the same part? You could even add the feed tube into the mix. Also consider that some of these 3D printing materials can glue rather well.

[Taylor D]

If you are printing the breech, might you consider printing the trigger frame assembly and breech as the same part? You could even add the feed tube into the mix. Also consider that some of these 3D printing materials can glue rather well.

The trigger frame assemply is more complicated with more moving parts, the breech is just one piece with 2 screws. All the actual mechanics are in the valve and trigger frame.

Printing a breech and trigger assembly as one part would make it rather difficult or outright impossible to open the gun up to access the internals. How would you even get the internals in?

[Chuck E Ducky]

You could put the trigger on a shoulder screw with a nut printed into the frame. Pull the trigger slide the internals out the back. Biggest issue is going to be the internals riding on the printed plastic. It’s not going to last long. Maybe if you anneal the print after you might get a lil more durability out of it. But I don’t see it lasting long.

[cryogenic76]

Shoulder screw for the trigger works great--I have one (machined from metal though) on my Phantom.

The only issue with the mono-body Phantom disassembly is removing the pump arm from the bolt, which I didn't think about when I posted. That said, there are options. For durability, a metal sleeve pressed/glued into the breech could help; however, that only makes sense if the purpose of the project is a larger body redesign.

I just mentioned the mono-body thing because it seems that if one is 3D printing Phantom bodies, a larger redesign might be fun. If you do print a body, please let us know how it goes!

[Chuck E Ducky]

True I forgot about that, however if you were printing it you could slot the sides like a buzzard /Hammer and make the handle to. That would alleviate the need for the pump arm and key way.

[flyweightnate]

This is the ultimate MCB reply.
"Hi guys, where can I find this paintball part? It's for a project."
"Ooh... I have an idea..."

Taylor, you're now legally obligated to post photos of whatever you come up with. People are emotionally involved.

[JeepDVLZ45]

Preach!!

[Chuck E Ducky]

Facts.

[Taylor D]

I mostly just want to see if I can 3D print a breech and barrel, if it will actually work.

I've seen a video where a guy 3D printed the entire phantom minus the valve and internals and it worked.

[Chuck E Ducky]

He documented the entire process on one of the Facebook Phantom pages. I remember it that was a while ago. While it worked it wasn’t very durable. I say go for it post up what you create.

[SignOfZeta]

The trigger frame assemply is more complicated with more moving parts, the breech is just one piece with 2 screws. All the actual mechanics are in the valve and trigger frame.

Printing a breech and trigger assembly as one part would make it rather difficult or outright impossible to open the gun up to access the internals. How would you even get the internals in?

Indeed. This makes way more sense than wasting plastic and electricity making a massively inferior version of a part that isn’t hard to find and doesn’t even cost very much.

A mono block Nelson could be cool. You could probably print a Sterling style body.

[Have Blue]

That is not good advice. There simply isn’t enough material there for pure plastic. Even the real (metal) bodies have metal inserts. If you’re going to never use the gun or make breaches all the time I guess it’s fine.

Real Phantom breeches have inserts, but quite a few other Nelson designs do not. Since Taylor D is looking to just see if it can be done, I think threading right into the printed plastic is perfectly fine for proof-of-concept (since the CCI inserts aren't exactly cheap). Even better would be to have a conical lug/protrusion off the breech with a matching cavity in the printed trigger frame so that there's more thread engagement (and helps key the breech to the frame).