How long does it take for a brand new main spring to soften up?

[The Jayster]

I'm still having high velocity issues with my Phantom. I use HPA and for the last two years I had a red spring (can't remember how many turns the TPC was screwed in though) and averaged at an admittedly somewhat inconsistent 280fps. I have the ASP detent mod and a Phreak barrel, but I tend to overbore with the Freak out of habit.

About a few weeks ago with that set-up and using decent Graffiti with a 0.682 insert I would hit 300ish fps with the TPC fully or almost fully backed out. I then switched to the silver spring and I was at 290-300fps with the TPC at about half a turn from fully back-out. I then switched again to the blue spring with TPC at 2-3 turns from fully backed out and hit about 285 fps.

Yesterday though, I used a 0.677 sleeve and understandably my velocity went up by about 10fps. I tested with the silver spring and TPC fully backed out and I was at 300fps. I then switched to the blue one with TPC fully backed out and was at 275-285. I did get amazing consistency though.

In my mind the set-up range is this:
Highest possible velocity: red spring + TPC all the way in
Lowest possible velocity: blue spring + TPC fully backed out

I find it strange that with the blue spring and TPC fully or almost fully backed-out the lowest velocity I can get is 275-280. Stranger still is that my velocity used to be on the lower side with the red spring I had been using for 2 years or so now.

Which, after ALL this, leads me to my question: after how many shots would a main spring attain its normal strength, or 'break-in'? I'm suspecting the issue here is that I have brand new springs that are still stiff. Yesterday I played half the day with my Phantom and I don't think I fired more than 150 shots with it, 200 at the most. So I'd surmise the break-in period must occur after a good while. Otherwise I may be missing something else?

[Chuck E Ducky]

What is your HPA input pressure? That will determine what spring set to use.

800-850psi input is 280-300fps with 1.5 turns in from flush silver springs. This spring setup will let you put C02 /12g to the Phantom with the same springs. I personally set all mine up for 825psi this keeps me within 20fps HPA to 12g on the same spring set.

Things to inspect. Bolt tip oring insure it’s sealing on whatever barrel you are using. Make sure the hammer and sear slot is moving freely clean and lightly oiled. Also make sure your cup seal is not backing off the power tube and the two pieces are tight. Insure the body and valve body are tight together when you tighten the valve take down knob

The Phantom will be very inconsistent if you Adjust the TPC too far out of it’s adjustment range. It will move around, and bind. When you get the marker tuned for whatever input pressure you have, it should be very consistent especially on HPA.

There was a bad batch of cup seals extreme put out that get sticky under Co2 pressures but that should not be relevant with your HPA setup. It’s likely to low of HPA input pressure forcing you to go to far in on the bolt with the TPC past it’s adjustment threads allowing the TPC to move when operating = inconsistent shot to shot.

[Grendel]

As Chuck says above it is something other then spring "break-in" that is causing issues. For compression spring there is no break in period for the spring itself, spring rates are consistent as long as you do not compress/stretch them beyond their deformation points. On a setup like a paintball marker it will take a few cycles to get the spring to settle into position but they really should take too many shots (<10). It takes lots of cycles to fatigue a compression spring.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Agreed Phantoms do shoot better with use. But it’s not spring related

[SignOfZeta]

Quality springs don’t “break in”. Is that a thing people believe?

[Grendel]

Yup, it is a pretty common belief and not just in paintball.

[wunderbarsafari]

I think someone here had a new EV phantom shipped with a lighter green valve spring installed. I would double check that you have a standard silver spring in the valve. It wouldn’t cause the inconsistency, but could be a culprit for high velocity range.

I have a 2 month old phantom that runs like a top with stock silver springs and minor TPC adjustment as Chuck mentioned.

[Chuck E Ducky]

EV fixed the cup seal issue? (Or you are running HPA)

We do have another member working on a fix for the cup seal issue. There are a few off the shelf options as well for a temp fix if needed.

[wunderbarsafari]

That or I didn’t get a lemon.
I ran 12 grams on Saturday in the rain shooting 270-280.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Nice!

[The Jayster]

Thanks everyone for your input. This is what caught my attention:

- Break-in periods for springs is a myth, did not know that;
- I'll check my tank output pressure (I'll build a gauge or visit a pro-shop). For the record I use a Tippmann brand 13 ci tank, so I'd expect the output pressure to be at 800 psi;
- I'll inspect the valve spring (green or silver?);

Also:

- Bolt tip oring insure it’s sealing on whatever barrel you are using - I'm using a stock Phreak barrel, not sure how I could confirm if there's a good seal or not;
- Make sure the hammer and sear slot is moving freely clean and lightly oiled - They appear to be;
- Also make sure your cup seal is not backing off the power tube and the two pieces are tight. - Will try to check that;
- Insure the body and valve body are tight together when you tighten the valve take down knob - Would that be the Air Adapter (5) going into the Breech (35)?

[The Jayster]

Well, it took a while but I finally had a look at the internals.

Also make sure your cup seal is not backing off the power tube and the two pieces are tight. -They're not. As a matter of fact, I tried to take off the cup seal but it wouldn't even bulge.

But I did find something interesting: a green valve spring. I replaced it with a silver one and put in a silver main spring. I don't have a chrono but at my next outing I'll test it out.

[JeeperCreeper]

You should be golden now

[$L!mBo]

if its worth anything, most of my markers hit similar numbers to your original post. and thats close enough for me.
most of my phantoms are blue valve and silver hammer setups.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Hammer is really the important one. I had one it had no valve spring and shot fine it was just less efficient. My bolt action Phantom had no valve spring in it. If I pumped it hard it would purge a lil bit. I chocked it up to possibly being cut to far back but after running 12g in the cold on it I wanted a lil more Efficiency when I pulled it apart I realized it didn’t have a valve spring. Put a valve spring in and it shoots the same without the lil burp of air/co2. I was surprised myself it never gave me an issue with no valve spring. It shot FS extremely consistent and accurate with no valve spring it was just a bit of a gas hog. Shoots even better now if I could find a place to use em lol.

[$L!mBo]

i bet if you took the time n moolah to test out the different powertube sizes and experimented with pump link stops (look inside the slot of your rtr frame), you could totally run without a valve spring reasonably reliably.

on an unrelated, im so stoked for the event next month

[The Jayster]

Ok, so:
With a silver/silver/TPC about one turn in from flush I was hitting about 295fps. I then switched to a blue main spring (valve spring still silver) + TPC at 1.25 turn in from flush and I'm at about 285fps. Problem solved.

I raked in an insane amount of hits on that day. There I was:



Thank you all again for your assistance.