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Rear/External Velocity Adjustment?

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    #1

    Rear/External Velocity Adjustment?

    I'm sure this has been thought of before, and probably discussed to a degree, but why hasn't this happened (or has it...)? Seems like it could be pretty straight forward, looking similar to how automags have their rear velocity adjustment on the back side of the valves. I know we're all used to the classic musket ramrod velocity adjuster situation, but seems like it could be a neat thing to add. With all the features that have been added/improved on over the years, seems like this would be one to really "complete" the offering if it's feasible? What're your takes on it?

    -Mike


    Edit - Referring to vertical air valve bodies to clarify, rear air/dropout wouldn't quite work I don't think...
    Tags: None
    #2
    Making the rear body into a regulator is tricky due to field strip screw protrusion.
    I have seen a cooper T ? product which used a screw to vary tension in the valve. Obviously didn’t catch on to other Nelson designs it seems.

    Comment

      #3
      Hmm, I see. That being said, the "ledge" the valve spring presses back on could easily be bored out a bit to accommodate some sort of assembly and the valve body threaded insert could be reduced in depth a few threads without issue? Could always change where the rear air port is, and/or extend the length of the body as needed?

      Was that Cooper T an internal or external thing?

      Comment

        #4
        I'll take "Because, some people want to watch the world burn" for $200, Alex... What is ...Why fix/change a non-broken thing..? 🤔....😋
        Carp 's Feedback
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        • Likes 6

        Comment

          #5
          Cooper T Nelson Valve Body w/ built in RVA
          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w0N8StpWyVM&pp=ygUTQmFjY2kgY29vcGVyIG5lbHNvbg%3D%3D
          This Nelson valve body RVA is similar to a Sheridan ASA and uses a second hold in the rear asa which can be adjusted to raise or lower velocity.Find Nelson b...


          very neat
          • Likes 1

          Comment

          • Sottyman
            #5.1
            Sottyman commented
            08-13-2024, 01:47 AM
            Editing a comment
            That's very similar to what I was thinking, but I could see why this particular design didn't catch on. Gotta degas AND take the air source off to do the adjustment...
          #6
          I've seen it on some Carter's.
          Don't know why it didn't take off for phantoms.

          I had a PPS Phantom stabilizer for a bit.

          That was cool.
          • Likes 1

          Comment

            #7
            It probably didn't ever catch on because how often do you really need to adjust your Phantom? Pretty much the only time I have to adjust it is if it's extremely hot out, or I'm switching from HPA to 12 grams or vice versa. Most of the time, I check it at the chrono, but hardly ever need to touch the adjuster. If I do, it's a slight turn in either direction.

            You want it to be easier? Wrap the tool with a lot of tape, so it just fits inside the barrel, it helps keep the tool centered and there's less fumbling to find that screw.
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            • Likes 3

            Comment

            • Jonnydread
              #7.1

              Jonnydread

               commented
              08-13-2024, 04:47 AM
              Editing a comment
              We’re going in dry!
            #8
            Originally posted by JeeperCreeper View Post
            It probably didn't ever catch on because how often do you really need to adjust your Phantom? Pretty much the only time I have to adjust it is if it's extremely hot out, or I'm switching from HPA to 12 grams or vice versa. Most of the time, I check it at the chrono, but hardly ever need to touch the adjuster. If I do, it's a slight turn in either direction.

            You want it to be easier? Wrap the tool with a lot of tape, so it just fits inside the barrel, it helps keep the tool centered and there's less fumbling to find that screw.
            Yep. This is a hardcore fix for a non-problem. I wonder if the OP has a lot of Phantom experience. If you aren’t switching between CO2 and HPA you can quite easily go YEARS without adjusting velocity on a Phantom. How much time and money am I going to spend modifying the gun for an “easy” adjustment I almost never make? It’s an investment that will never pay for itself.

            Comment

            • Sottyman
              #8.1
              Sottyman commented
              08-13-2024, 10:26 AM
              Editing a comment
              Been using them since roughly 2003-2004
            #9
            I have one someone machined.... Other than being an annoying leak point it has little gain on velocity control

            • Likes 2

            Comment

              #10
              I think the Air Power Apex had one of these?

              Comment

                #11
                Thanks for the input! Besides just a creative venture in my head, seems like a dead stick. I'll put it to rest!

                Comment

                  #12
                  Originally posted by Ecapnation View Post
                  I have one someone machined.... Other than being an annoying leak point it has little gain on velocity control
                  Even if there was quite a range of adjustment for the spring strength of the valvespring?
                  I'm imagining that a redesigned rear valve housing could have a longer valvespring than stock to allow for a greater range of adjustment.

                  Comment

                    #13
                    Originally posted by The Inflicted View Post

                    Even if there was quite a range of adjustment for the spring strength of the valvespring?
                    I'm imagining that a redesigned rear valve housing could have a longer valvespring than stock to allow for a greater range of adjustment.
                    In the range the one I have....like 20 fps tops. It has about 1/4 inch between not leaking and leaking
                    .
                    ​​​​
                    • Likes 1

                    Comment

                      #14
                      The "best" solution if you want to adjust velocity at the back of a Phantom is to set up a sideline regulator. I ran one for a while and really wish I never got rid of it. It piped from the VASA through a PPS Sideling regulator into the stock Phantom Valve body. It worked great for fine tuning velocity and was very useful in setting up to get the most good shots out of a CO2 cartridge (less drop in velocity but when it got toward the end velocity dropped steeply). Completely unnecessary as stated before if you take the time to setup your Phantoms Spring balance and TPC position you get plenty of adjustability out of the TPC. Regardless I liked having the sideline regulator I still set it up like I was going to use the TPC then I Loctite the TPC and fine tuned velocity with the regulator. I keep my eye out for a PPS sideline regulator to drop one in my Spring Feed Phantom to go with my Micro-CA II lever changer. Completely unneeded but I love futsing with my stuff.


                      "When you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, 'Certainly I can!' Then get busy and find out how to do it." - Theodore Roosevelt

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                      • Likes 1

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                        #15
                        Palmers made a Valve body with a regulator built in. This allows you to crank up the pressure and regulate it down with the reg adjustment.

                        But adjusting the spring pressure at the back of the cup seal / power tube really isn’t the best way to adjust a Phantom. You will only get a fine adjustment out of it and will still need to adjust from the front for large velocity swings. Those Cooper T BBA really don’t work well as an adjustment method I have one on my Nelspot 007 with Phantom internals and it’s pretty much useless for adjusting velocity.
                        Attached Files
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                        Comment

                        • Carp
                          #15.3

                          Carp

                           commented
                          08-25-2024, 05:19 PM
                          Editing a comment
                          Lol...what kind of lighting are you using, to get that blue lit up, like that? 👍
                        • Grendel
                          #15.4

                          Grendel

                           commented
                          08-25-2024, 05:54 PM
                          Editing a comment
                          Looks like you got the barrel glued up
                        • Chuck E Ducky
                          #15.5

                          Chuck E Ducky

                           commented
                          08-25-2024, 07:59 PM
                          Editing a comment
                          That’s actually another barrel had purchased through PB Charleston a while back that was already glued. I still got to glue the Red and black, and a yellow and black I talked my buddy into snagging. My favorite Phantom barrel hands down!
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