Cup seals

[StockMike]

After exchanging a few emails with Jesse at EV, he sounds like they aren’t going to change anything, or correct anything. Their view is that something must be wrong with both my phantoms, not their seals. Looks like I’m going to try a few of the options the gracious MCBers have suggested so far in this thread.

[Winklebottom]

:/ glad I have two CCI phantoms that will probably out live me. Let us know if you find something that works! Kind of a shame that so many issues with their EVs.

[Carp]

I could sell you a couple backups, just in case. 😉 ....you do realize, this is MCB, and I'm talking about 2 mostly CCI Phantoms. 😂

[Chuck E Ducky]

[Winklebottom]

I like the way you guys think, just found out from the guy I picked up the new phantom from that the stock class body with detents is the 2.0 not original CCI. What idiosyncrasies am I in for?

[Carp]

EV 2.0 body = 👍
EV 2.0 trigger assembly ASA/VASA kit = 🤦♂️ but, there's ways to by-pass. 👍

EV 1.0 trigger assembly > EV 2.0 trigger assembly ASA/VASA kit....full disclosure: I've not used a EV 2.0 body or trigger assembly/ASA/VASA kit. Only the EV 1.0 trigger assembly(ie.OG CCI style) and a CCI ASP detent modded body. 😉

[SignOfZeta]

After exchanging a few emails with Jesse at EV, he sounds like they aren’t going to change anything, or correct anything. Their view is that something must be wrong with both my phantoms, not their seals. Looks like I’m going to try a few of the options the gracious MCBers have suggested so far in this thread.

That is absolutely ridiculous. He’s blaming Mike’s stuff for their problems. That’s probably their same excuse for why the extremely expensive 2.0 frame sucks…you just need to buy the entire rest of the gun to go with it!

Does this guy have an account here? Is he going to explain why his form of hackery and denial is so great that it’s worth burning through 30 years of good will he can never earn back again?

[StockMike]

This is another email EV sent to me in reply. I was told this their seals aren’t designed for CO2, rather only HPA. I explained the visible size difference and clear lack of flexibility compared to the urethane seals.

“How does the retainer face look? Mike's retainers tend to have small blemishes on them, which was one of the first issues we had to fix. Any old ones we still had from him we had to lightly sand down ourselves by hand, and now we tightened up how the millers and platers handle them. I would recommend lightly sanding your retainer face, smoothing it out from any blemishes from manufacturing. We've built over 100 powertubes with these new cup seals, so their size and hardness isn't an issue. The cup seal doesn't need to fit in snug, as the retainer face is the only part that needs to seal. The snugness was due to how Mike had the old cup seals cut, it was a biproduct of manufacturing and not by design.”

[Chuck E Ducky]

Well that’s BS because new phantoms out of the box have the same issue you are describing. The only fix is the proper face seal. Selling HPA only valve seals is a BS cop out for poorly designed parts. Who buys a VSC Phantom they can only shoot HPA with Give me a break! Do Better!

[StockMike]

It’s not just a “HPA valve” either. It leaks with HPA and co2. I will see what this new retainer does with the new seals…. I’m hoping it works, for the sake of Phantom Longevity.

[Winklebottom]

If you aren’t getting rollouts then the 2.0 body is fine. Mine didn’t ship with correct o-rings so I had to waste time and money on experimentation I wasn’t at all interested in. The body itself seems perfectly fine, which is good because it was three times the price of the body I bought a few years before.

Thanks for the heads up, I actually just found your old post and am on the hunt for some replacement o rings just to ensure it works before I get to the field. Previous owner said they didn’t prevent roll outs for him just double feeds so I assume they arnt the right o rings.
sorry to hijack the thread. Appreciate yall.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Yeah try fatter orings Or harder duro. They should hold a ball in the breach regardless of what barrel you put in front of it. They allow you to over bore and shoot inconsistent and very brittle paint much better. It’s my favorite Phantom mod I have all of mine done.

[nnolt89]

I bought a phantom from EV and the seals were nothing but issues. They sent me replacements. Some looked like my child cut them out with crazy scissors. They did not work and if they did it was temporary. Ones I replaced with old CCI seals. It worked. EV is frustrating.

[StockMike]

Well EV may not have good quality seals, but Jesse is still doing his best for customer service. He sent me a follow-up email asking if I was able to get my phantom to stop leaking after sanding the valve retainer smooth. (Sanding it smooth didn’t work, but I found got ahold of some other seals that worked) he did offer to send me a new retainer free of charge, which he assured me are machined to work with the new seals. So kudos to Jesse for doing his best to help. I will see how the new stuff works together, as opposed to mixing new and old.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Screw it! Anyone still in contact with Mike that can get us the exact material he used? We can have a bunch made the OG way the old ones are good for 10+ years per side anyway.

[Chaos]

I just ordered a 5 pack of the Sheridan Face Seals from PGP Junkies to try out as Cupseals, I'll let you know the results. If they work then, it'd be a nice cheap a reliable alternative. I also sent him a 12 gram changer seal and piercing pin cup for measurement, so hopefully he can make those for us too

[Chaos]

Just got my pack of Sheridan Faceseals in from PGP Junkies and gave them a test
The first pic shows a stock CCI Phantom Cupseal on the right and the new Sheridan Faceseal on the left. They are a perfect fit and work great so far

[StockMike]

Awesome! I will have to get some of those and keep them on hand! I’m glad there are still some options out there besides EV.

[Chaos]

Video test of these seals

https://youtu.be/w7IO29IOlao?si=PJIrQ68Br2Z_myQ2

[Chaos]

Direct link to the seals that PGP Junkies is selling here... I'm working with him to get 12g Piercing Pin seals made as well

[flyweightnate]

I got a double batch from PGP Junkies and they shipped FAST. Excited to have a backup for my Phantoms.

[Winklebottom]

Got an order of the PGP seals, just after had to replace my first cup seal due to a leak down the barrel. The PGP seal worked like a charm!

edit: on my second day of play one of the cup seals mushroomed so bad the gun wouldn’t air up or fire after about half a day. Hopefully the next one lasts longer, hoping it was a freak thing.

[Sherwoodsghost]

Any updates?

[Myfeetupontheground]

Got an order of the PGP seals, just after had to replace my first cup seal due to a leak down the barrel. The PGP seal worked like a charm!

edit: on my second day of play one of the cup seals mushroomed so bad the gun wouldn’t air up or fire after about half a day. Hopefully the next one lasts longer, hoping it was a freak thing.

Sherwoodsghost I am planning to offer a different 5 pack of seals the same size, but a higher duro. I have only heard of this issue twice in the phantoms, so I think its not a problem 90% of the time. But, i developed those seals for the PGP valve face seals. They weren't designed to be a constant motion part like a cup seal. But I will be doing some maintenance on the website this weekend to correct for this.

[Sherwoodsghost]

I ordered some universal black magic seals last week from a guy on here. I don't have this issue yet (just bought a 2000's phantom) and also going to order a new one. Herd the new phantoms are having the seal problem, don't know why they would change the old seal material if its all ready tried and true.

[Myfeetupontheground]

This is definitely not a common issue. I have sold more than 50 of these kits and only heard about the Phantom issue twice. And even then, it has only been with one seal and not all 5. I am hoping its just a oddball, but I am working to find out.