Low strength solenoid, board problems?

[Trbo323]

First off, yes, I've already replaced the capacitor, brand new 9v

Technically this is an icon z frame but as far as I can tell there really are no differences between it and the spyder boards.

Weak clapper noid, capacitor looks fine but I have some on hand so I replace it anyway, no change, try plugging a different clapper in, no change

So a this point I'm thinking it's something with the board itself but I've never come across an actual board problem that would cause a weak solenoid, figured I'd ask you guys first before giving up on it

Anyone else ever encountered something like this?

What stupid thing am I forgetting to check?

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[Tarsun2]

how weak? like wont move all the way or it just dosent have the uummppffff to trip the sear...?

do you have a multi meter to check the farads of the cap?

caps have a + and a - side, worth checking...

do you have the nylon washer in there?

is the main spring way too tight?

is there a lip on the hammer or sear that's getting caught?

does the sear move freely?



im going to go out on a limb and say that the solenoid has shifted back some and its too far back. can it be slid closer?

[grendal50]

I had one with a bent sear pin binding on the hinge point, make sure that is clean and in good shape. I don't know how and why it got bent, but it was an easy swap.

[Shaftski]

electrolytic capacitor polarity as mentioned before is a real possibility

if the cap blew out and needed to be replaced, it went for a reason, and often isn't the cap's fault. in that case, look for wiring shorts. if the wiring looks good, a current limiting resistor may have overloaded and either blew out or it's resistance spiked from overheating. either case it wouldn't pass current to the noid.

[punkncat]

Something else of consideration is whether this was on a "9V" or a "9.6V" battery.

Spring tension comes to mind, as mentioned above.

I had one that absolutely refused to fire with a regular 9V alkaline battery. I got one of those rechargeable 9.6V off the Jungle Site and it worked fine afterward.

[Trbo323]

how weak? like wont move all the way or it just dosent have the uummppffff to trip the sear...?

do you have a multi meter to check the farads of the cap?

I have a pretty basic one and don't know much about checking this kind of stuff, think you can walk me through it?

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll go through them next time

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[Grendel]

What type of multi-meter do you have (make/model). Most DIY Digital Multimeters are next to useless for measuring capacitance (farads) especially while still in circuit. When measuring capacitance (capacitive reactance) while in circuit you are measure of the whole circuit capacitive reactance in its depowered state not necessarily the capacitance of the actual capacitor.

This is to be done with no power:
IF you have an analog meter you can set it for resistance and measure from Neg to Positive lead and watch the needle. A capacitor that is functioning "correctly" will spike to a very low resistance then slowly rise toward infinity. This is the normal charging behavior of a capacitor especially an electrolytic cap to a DC current. If Resistance is low and stays low there is a short or high resistance short in circuit somewhere may or may not be the cap. If it measure a high/infinite resistance immediately and it does not show the charging up characteristic described earlier it is likely open/bad cap.

[Tarsun2]

look for this symbol " -I(- "

its number 13

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/digital-multimeters/multimeter-dial-button-jacks-display

the cap should be out of the board.

most often though, if the top of the cap if nice and flat, its most likely fine. wouldnt hurt to rule it out though.

[Trbo323]

look for this symbol " -I(- "

its number 13

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/digital-multimeters/multimeter-dial-button-jacks-display

the cap should be out of the board.

most often though, if the top of the cap if nice and flat, its most likely fine. wouldnt hurt to rule it out though.

Yeah, I replaced it with a brand new one already.

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[Cdn_Cuda]

I’ve got a Spyder with the same issue. Holds air, looks good but a regular 9v won’t trip the sear. I can force it manually my though. Been meaning to pick up a 9.6 volt battery to see if it helps, but they are getting scarce.

[grendal50]

Amazon has a 2-pack with charging base. Don't know if it's available up there though.

[Cdn_Cuda]

I'll take another look on Amazon.

[Seajay]

https://www.amazon.com/Powerex-Self-Discharge-Precharged-Rechargeable-MHR9VP/dp/B01FV0U5WG?th=1

They have risen a little in price. One of these lasts my whole day, and 1.5 cases of paint is what I shoot in a busy day.

[Seajay]

Should really only be using 9.6v with Spyder boards. The boards are designed around the higher power so using lower power options can wear the electronics. Not a but deal if you just want to turn the board on and hear it click, but if you are cycling it against the seer or pressurized the components are essentially pulling power from the battery that it doesn't have if you are using a normal 9v. The higher draw makes things hot, which wears electronics.

[Trbo323]

Should really only be using 9.6v with Spyder boards. The boards are designed around the higher power so using lower power options can wear the electronics. Not a but deal if you just want to turn the board on and hear it click, but if you are cycling it against the seer or pressurized the components are essentially pulling power from the battery that it doesn't have if you are using a normal 9v. The higher draw makes things hot, which wears electronics.

I don't tend to subscribe to that for two reasons.

1) I get a lot, like a LOT of spyders across my work bench, e framed are my favorite, and about 98% of the time they come to me with a normal 9v in them. If what you are saying were true, I should be seeing a lot more busted boards. I've had a couple of dead ones over the years (wouldn't even power on) but for the most part, it's just capacitor replacements and considering all these boards are going on 15ish years old, I would expect to see many more that had issues from running normal 9v

2) as that 9.6v battery loses it's charge it already drops under 9v anyway so a fresh 9v is nothing the board can't work with. Yes I'll agree that the 9v will drop lower in voltage than the 9.6 when they are both getting empty but starting out, it's nothing the board can't handle

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[Seajay]

I don't tend to subscribe to that for two reasons.

1) I get a lot, like a LOT of spyders across my work bench, e framed are my favorite, and about 98% of the time they come to me with a normal 9v in them. If what you are saying were true, I should be seeing a lot more busted boards. I've had a couple of dead ones over the years (wouldn't even power on) but for the most part, it's just capacitor replacements and considering all these boards are going on 15ish years old, I would expect to see many more that had issues from running normal 9v

2) as that 9.6v battery loses it's charge it already drops under 9v anyway so a fresh 9v is nothing the board can't work with. Yes I'll agree that the 9v will drop lower in voltage than the 9.6 when they are both getting empty but starting out, it's nothing the board can't handle

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The boards are fairly robust, so I believe that you don't see too many failures. It's more to do with using the same board a lot over the years, which probably also isn't a big percentage of folks these days.

It's not so much the volt reading you get, but the recharge of the cap during that draw. There is a lot more wear from a standard 9v than a 9.6v, but you'd never see it unless a hard board failure or you use the board a lot. What you'd first notice is having to replace the Cap more than you would normally need to.
I have my EMR5 original board I bought new, never replaced the cap, only used the 9.6v. I have a couple of used boards that also came with standard 9v in them, I had to replace the Caps on both.
Luckily it does seem the Cap is the first to fail, which is easy to replace.

[Trbo323]

The boards are fairly robust, so I believe that you don't see too many failures. It's more to do with using the same board a lot over the years, which probably also isn't a big percentage of folks these days.

It's not so much the volt reading you get, but the recharge of the cap during that draw. There is a lot more wear from a standard 9v than a 9.6v, but you'd never see it unless a hard board failure or you use the board a lot. What you'd first notice is having to replace the Cap more than you would normally need to.
I have my EMR5 original board I bought new, never replaced the cap, only used the 9.6v. I have a couple of used boards that also came with standard 9v in them, I had to replace the Caps on both.
Luckily it does seem the Cap is the first to fail, which is easy to replace.

Maybe, but here's the other problem

I just had another board so the same thing to me today. This board however is new, NOS as least but it's never been used in a marker.

I have a 9.6v battery but no charger, I'm debating ordering I've just to try but even if the old board that's weak is the problem of having been run too long on 9v batteries, this new board doesn't make sense

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