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Borg not shooting

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    #1

    Borg not shooting

    In his never ending bid to get me a marker that is so frustrating that I'll give up, Super Nova gave me a nugget of an 04/05 Borg.

    Rebuild went fine, came time to pressure test, first solenoid was all over the place. Venting and pushing the ram forward at the same time. Switched to the second noid and that one holds pressure fine and tries to fire but it's like the marker doesn't have enough dwell. Like not even close, the ram/bolt only move about 1/8 inch. If I increase the LPR pressure the noid starts venting. I'm fairly sure I have to be in the correct range of LPR pressure because if I push forward on the bolt pin it's fairly difficult.

    Fresh battery, bolt alone moves just fine, with no pressure in the ram slides back and forth just fine.

    I feel like I have to be missing something stupid. Any ideas?

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    #2
    I do send you some messed up stuff, not intentionally though.
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    WTB: ICD stuff, single trigger electro frames
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    • Myrkul
      #2.1

      Myrkul

       commented
      04-07-2025, 08:48 PM
      Editing a comment
      Not just him either šŸ˜‚
    #3
    Are you positive the ram was rebuilt correctly? A lot of what youā€™re describing could be from ram oring failing (venting/blow by and weak forward pressure).. the gasket between the solenoid manifold and the body has also been known to suck/collapse into the air channels blocking air flow

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      #4
      Originally posted by Frmrspec View Post
      Are you positive the ram was rebuilt correctly? A lot of what you're describing could be from ram oring failing (venting/blow by and weak forward pressure).. the gasket between the solenoid manifold and the body has also been known to suck/collapse into the air channels blocking air flow
      Positive? Not 100% as I haven't found o ring specs that are 04/05 specific but I did find specs for an 06 and the Rams look identical. The rings look right as well. I even tried a 2x7mm sail ring and had the same results

      Noid 1 is venting and pushing the ram the wrong direction at rest.

      Noid 2 appears to be working fine. Seals up but doesn't actually shoot

      The gasket is pushed into the channels a bit. Ill get a photo of it if you want to check that out. I wasn't aware that was a known issue and that could easily cause what I'm seeing

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        #5
        Also reassembly is a pain on those, itā€™s VERY easy to pinch the air line leading to the solenoid during reassembly.. I would test with the frame off to eliminate this issue

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          #6
          Originally posted by Frmrspec View Post
          Also reassembly is a pain on those, it's VERY easy to pinch the air line leading to the solenoid during reassembly.. I would test with the frame off to eliminate this issue
          I've been doing all my testing that way.

          The original line was cut on the corner of the noid. I see there's a serious pinch point there

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            #7
            I think I still have a solenoid manifold for an 05 bouncing around here somewhere if you want one made to adapt to a more common noid

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              #8
              Originally posted by Frmrspec View Post
              I think I still have a solenoid manifold for an 05 bouncing around here somewhere if you want one made to adapt to a more common noid
              I think it may be that membrane between the manifold and body getting pushed down into the air channels. At least that's my leading theory so far. I haven't had any time to get out to the work bench and take a photo for you.

              So I'm not sure switching the noid out would do anything for that.

              Also since you know a lot about these, the board in this one doesn't seem to have anything like an adjustable dwell, is that normal?

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                #9
                Good thing about that membrane is itā€™s just urethane sheet with a couple holes punched in it.. easy/cheap to change.. buy a small swatch from amazon and cut to size with scissors and drill a couple holes..

                and iirc the original board had basically zero programming

                main reason I suggested adapting a new solenoid was to eliminate that pinch point by using a shorter/smaller solenoid thatā€™s also more easily sourced.. like a Timmy solenoid.. hell if youā€™re going that far could also eliminate the need for that gasket entirely

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                  #10
                  Ok finally had a minute. Tell me what you think



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                    #11
                    Yeah Iā€™d say that looks pretty suspicious.. especially since those areas pressed in will increase even more when pressed between the manifold and body.. you could try taking an exacto knife and cutting down the raised areas

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                      #12
                      Originally posted by Frmrspec
                      The ports on the solenoid are M3 threaded right? You could block the constant on port and see how the solenoid cycles while gassed up
                      As far as I can tell it is cycling. When aired up it does move the ram/bolt just not nearly far enough

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                        #13
                        Yeah I deleted that response because I donā€™t think it exactly applies here.. you should be able to get some 1/16ā€ rubber gasket material from a local hardware shop to make a new one out of if you donā€™t want to modify the original

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